$135 a barrel

[PlaneDrvr]

Not an expert, but pretty knowledgeable, so here goes.

The GS and Boone Pickins statements about $150-200/bbl. oil comes from the following FACTS.

-The world currently has the ability to produce somewhere around 85-86M bbls of oil a day; and the world currenly consumes about 83-84M bbls of oil a day. Meaning there is only about 2M bbls of spare capacity and any supply disruption (instability in Middle East, Nigeria, etc), and the market is in the Negative.

Current growth trends in the world economy (think China, India), call for an increase in demand for oil of about 4-5% per year, and current growth in supply (increase in production) of oil going forward is about 1% per year. So, the growth of oil being produced is very Very likely NOT going to keep up with the growth in Demand in the future years (at least 1-5yrs out).

The Saudis do have about 2M bbls of extra/spare capacity available; however, most of that crude is 'heavy sour crude' which is very expensive to refine, and further there are few refineries that have the capability to refine it.

Off the U.S. east coast (the outer continental shelf) there is an estimated 20-40 Billion Barrels of oil, and even more, there is Billions of cubic feet of 'clean burning' Natural Gas. WE, thanks to Congress and 'special interests' in the this Country, completely refuse to drill for it. ALL of the Oil Executives before congress yesterday, all said, open up these areas for us to drill for more oil here, Domestic Production. In the future, we will be paying $7-9.00/gal. for gas, and probably still refuse to develop our own oil reserves.

All our 'so called' leaders (and future so called leaders) keep talking about is "Wind and Solar" which are good future resources and should be employed to add to our future needs. However, my car does NOT run on Solar power and Doesn't have a Sail.

O.K. so I've gone on long enough. Hope it helps, for what its worth.

PD

Just to add another brief bit of information.

Once you find a new oil source (a new field), such as off the U.S. coast; it takes roughly 3 to 3 1/2 yrs. to bring that field into 'full production.' So, WE NEED to start drilling off the U.S. Coast NOW, TODAY; or the hole that we are in will grown deeper and deeper in the coming years. But, our elected leaders and the American public are just too stupid to realize the situation. It is just so easy to just blame those "Greedy Oil Companies" Its all their fault.

PD

 

[PCL_128]

I would like to know why there are supply concerns. Could someone explain this to me, besause my take is, if the oil producing countries are dialing back production then they are not running at 100% pumping capacity, right? So I'm taking that there isn't the demand for the Suadi's to pump 100%. I could see there being supply concerns if and only if they had every well head pumping and the ships were backing up in the harbour to get filled. but as I alreadey stated, if the current demand is x amount of barrels dailt, then why pump 2(x) amount of barrels. I don't here about refineries shutting down because they don't have the crude to process... Is it just me or is this whole run up based on crap and the traders not the oil co's taking us for a ride for them to get rich on furtures?

According to the oil producers, even with production scaled back, they still have several million barrels per day that they can't unload on the market. There is no supply problem. It's a myth. The problem is speculators, just like it was with the late-90s tech bubble, and just like it was with the recently-popped real estate bubble. The idiot lemmings always have to have some place to dump their money, and they're dumping it into oil right now. Eventually the institutional investors will notice that the money is drying up for oil speculation, and they'll start taking their profits. When that happens and billions of dollars of institutional investment money comes out of oil, the price of oil will drop 30% in a heartbeat, just like tech stocks, and just like real estate.

 

[Kugelblitz]

Not an expert, but pretty knowledgeable, so here goes.

The GS and Boone Pickins statements about $150-200/bbl. oil comes from the following FACTS.

-The world currently has the ability to produce somewhere around 85-86M bbls of oil a day; and the world currenly consumes about 83-84M bbls of oil a day. Meaning there is only about 2M bbls of spare capacity and any supply disruption (instability in Middle East, Nigeria, etc), and the market is in the Negative.

Current growth trends in the world economy (think China, India), call for an increase in demand for oil of about 4-5% per year, and current growth in supply (increase in production) of oil going forward is about 1% per year. So, the growth of oil being produced is very Very likely NOT going to keep up with the growth in Demand in the future years (at least 1-5yrs out).

The Saudis do have about 2M bbls of extra/spare capacity available; however, most of that crude is 'heavy sour crude' which is very expensive to refine, and further there are few refineries that have the capability to refine it.

Off the U.S. east coast (the outer continental shelf) there is an estimated 20-40 Billion Barrels of oil, and even more, there is Billions of cubic feet of 'clean burning' Natural Gas. WE, thanks to Congress and 'special interests' in the this Country, completely refuse to drill for it. ALL of the Oil Executives before congress yesterday, all said, open up these areas for us to drill for more oil here, Domestic Production. In the future, we will be paying $7-9.00/gal. for gas, and probably still refuse to develop our own oil reserves.

All our 'so called' leaders (and future so called leaders) keep talking about is "Wind and Solar" which are good future resources and should be employed to add to our future needs. However, my car does NOT run on Solar power and Doesn't have a Sail.

O.K. so I've gone on long enough. Hope it helps, for what its worth.

PD

At the end of the day, there are better alternatives to oil and we need to get off our butts and stop letting business interest tell us what we can and cannot develope as energy sources. As I said earlier, drilling for US based oil is fine but there is no gaurantee that the oil companies will sell 100% of that production to the US. In fact, they will come up with some half wit reason to sell the oil to more lucrative over-seas markets and the Glenn Becks of the world will back them all the way.

This situation is the result of a bi-partisan sell out of the American people that dates back to St. R. Reagans 'policies'. There needs to be a complete floor to cieling overhaul, a referendum if you will, on our government and all the lobbyist organizations need to go.

 

[Soverytired]

At the end of the day, there are better alternatives to oil and we need to get off our butts and stop letting business interest tell us what we can and cannot develope as energy sources. As I said earlier, drilling for US based oil is fine but there is no gaurantee that the oil companies will sell 100% of that production to the US.

Actually, it's a 100% certainty they'll sell it to the global market. That's how oil is traded. As a global commodity at a set price worldwide.

However, increasing production and therefore supply should depress global oil prices. In the short term, anyway, because the stuff is running out.

Developing US supplies will lend stability to the global market. Places like the Middle East (blown up pipelines), South America (Venezuelan nationalization), etc. cause price spikes due to continual uncertainty about their ability to produce on schedule.

Who give a rats where cheaper oil comes from or goes to? The point is the price, not the vendor or the recipient.

 

[ultrarunner]

One thing is or certain, there are going to be a lot less airlines by the end of the year or early next. Massively bloated operations like UAL and AA can't tolerate 150 bucks a barrel for 2 months, let alone 2 years. These big outfits just don't have the cost structure to pay that much for oil.

The problem is the darn right refusal for all these outfits to collectively raise the price of travel. Fifteen bucks for a checked bag? Give me a break...the airlines would rather take massive delays at the gate while the overheads are stuffed....

It's tough to feel sorry for the once that close up when something can actually be done about it...

High oil is here to stay...and we're not going to work for fee, so get your $hit together!

 

[Dizel8]

Here is a solution.

Allow more drilling in the US, with a caveat though, and it is a bit different: The oil in the ground is a national asset that belongs to the American people and is to be used by the US.

Now, I don't want the goverment drilling for oil, clearly they are not suited for the task, so approach the Oil companies and allow them to bid for the contract. Not the usual way though, I don't want to allow them to reap the profits of the oil, nor allow them to set the price of said oil. Instead, I want them to be given the contract, based upon what they are willing to extract it for per barrel. An auction if you will, Exxon says they will extract if for $20 a barrel, Chevron for $15, hence the contract goes to Chevron. Numbers of course are made up, no idea what they truly would be.

Now of course, the oil companies are allowed to do their own due diligence, seismic testing, test drilling etc.

Whatever comes out of the ground, belongs to the US goverment, that is, it belongs to us, the American people. Congress, yep the clueless ones, will now set the price for a barrel of oil to the refineries, however, to prevent the refineries from making huge profits, we need to have some oversight or we could even make them bid on, how much they want to refine the oil into gasoline.

I don't want to socialize the oil companies, don't want to be like Venezuela, and I think my proposal, at least as far as extraction is concerned, is very capitalistic. I have no doubt, that the oil companies
would bid for the contracts, after all, there is money to be made, but at the same time, they cannot divert the profits of rising prices to themselves.

Obviously, I am not that smart, am a avia..., avai...., pilot after all, but I am sure there is reasons why this wouldn't work and to solutions how to make it work.

What y'all think?

 

[atrdriver]

Like I said in another thread, we are fighting a war in the middle east for American sovereignty against middle eastern forces that we have already handed over control of our economy too. After many years of bi-partisan efforts to block alternative energy research and initiatives - at the bribed expense of the oil industry - we now find ourselves in a position where the only answer to our problems is to give big oil whatever it needs.

Let them drill in Montana, Alaska, wherever and then they (the US oil companies) can sell that oil to southeast Asia at a higher profit just like they do right now with the extant Alaskan pipeline.

Like I said in another thread, if we

1) announced new drilling in all the prohibited areas
2) announced new refinery construction
3) announced resumption of nuke plants

I would bet that the price of oil would drop by at least a third within a week. That would obviously help the current price, but it would also slam the speculators, which would be a good thing. But the enviromentalists are still blocking everything that would help this situation. And I guarantee that they don't care a bit what happens to the average American, or all those evil corporations.

 

[skywiz]

Start Drilling Now

Just to add another brief bit of information.

Once you find a new oil source (a new field), such as off the U.S. coast; it takes roughly 3 to 3 1/2 yrs. to bring that field into 'full production.' So, WE NEED to start drilling off the U.S. Coast NOW, TODAY; or the hole that we are in will grown deeper and deeper in the coming years. But, our elected leaders and the American public are just too stupid to realize the situation. It is just so easy to just blame those "Greedy Oil Companies" Its all their fault.

PD

I agree. Start writing your congressmen to START DRILLING NOW!!! Although it will take ~10 years to see that oil, the price will drop immediately!! Speculators will then stop betting that the price of oil will keep going up because they will know that we will have alot more oil from our own country.

Write your congressman to start drilling now!!

Thats all WE can do.

 

[Soverytired]

Here is a solution.

Whatever comes out of the ground, belongs to the US goverment, that is, it belongs to us, the American people.

I don't want to socialize the oil companies, don't want to be like Venezuela, and I think my proposal, at least as far as extraction is concerned, is very capitalistic.

I think Hugo Chavez and Joesph Stalin would be proud.

Look, I don't mean to be insulting, but this is anti-capitalistic, anti-consumer, anti-free trade, anti-business, and anti-American (to name a few).

How about Congress repealing the 100 or so laws that forbid anyone from exploring for and developing oil over 90% of the places in the US that might have it?

This proposal is the absolute definition of "nationalization" of industry. Free countries and free markets generally don't truck in this sort of thing.

 

[PCL_128]

I think Hugo Chavez and Joesph Stalin would be proud.

Look, I don't mean to be insulting, but this is anti-capitalistic, anti-consumer, anti-free trade, anti-business, and anti-American (to name a few).

Melodramatic much? All he's describing is basically a highly regulated oil exploration and refinement industry. I think it's a valid idea. It would certainly need to be studied a lot more by economists and oil experts, but it's a valid idea on the surface. The almighty "free market" isn't the answer to everything. A little regulation can be a good thing in certain industries (our own included).

 

[Redmeat]

Write your congressman to start drilling now!!

Thats all WE can do.

I would rather we go back to farming and start riding bicycles like they do in Europe.

Expensive oil is the best thing that has happened to this country in a a long time. It will FORCE change.

No more soccer moms in a F250 extended cab that gets 10 miles to the gallon driving to the store for a gallon of milk.

 

[PCL_128]

I'm still seeing idiots driving around tha ATL in their Hummers. Saw three of them just yesterday while driving to dinner. How the hell can these idiots afford 10 mpg at $4/gallon?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Is It Time To Tap U.S. Oil Reserves?

WASHINGTON, May 22, 2008 (CBS/AP) With gas hitting a new high almost daily, some members of Congress pleaded with the energy secretary to release the nation's 700 million barrel emergency stockpile, reports CBS News correspondent Nancy Cordes.

His response - that's not what it's for.

"The strategic petroleum reserve is meant to be there as a protection for the American people," said Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman.

"The American people right now are being tipped upside down at the pumps and having money taken out of their pockets," responded Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass.

Bodman also told a House of Representatives hearing that he does not believe that rampant market speculation is causing record high oil prices that reached a record $135 a barrel. He said it is a matter of supply and demand that can be traced to essentially flat global production over the last three years.

Markey said he did not understand why President Bush is not releasing oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to force down prices. "We have 700 million barrels ... that are ready to be deployed," said Markey.

Mr. Bush recently stopped putting oil into the reserve after Congress passed legislation to halt deliveries.

The stockpile, now 701 million barrels, "is meant to deal with ... the physical interruption of the flow of oil to our country. We don't have that issue today," he told the House Committee on Global Warming.

Markey said the release of government oil is justified because "we're in an economic crisis" as high oil costs are driving gasoline to $4 a gallon and increasing other costs.

Oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve, three underground salt domes in the states of Texas and Louisiana, has been used twice to respond to supply disruptions or the threat of such interruptions: Just before and during the first Gulf War in the early 1990s and in response to the loss of Gulf of Mexico oil after Hurricane Katrina in 2005. President Bill Clinton in 2000 made emergency oil available to relieve prices and Markey said prices then dropped 18 percent.

A series of dire reports about the world supply of oil are driving investors to buy, buy, buy. Just today, the Wall Street Journal reported that the international energy agency is set to predict a massive supply crunch if producers don't significantly boost their capacity within five years.

"There'd be a rapid sell off if at some point somebody believes that the assumptions underlying this speculative investment are wrong," Edward Morse of Lehman Brothers told Cordes.

Until then, Americans are left holding the bill.

"A barrel of oil has more impact on our everyday lives than any other product in America," said Jack Gillis of the Consumer Federation of America. "Almost everything we buy is going to be dependent on the price of oil in some way."

One example: After American Airlines announced a $15 fee for passengers to check their first bag, United Airlines said it might follow suit. While Southwest Airlines says - no way.

"This is just going to irritate your customers," Peter Goelz, an airline industry analyst told Cordes. "And I think with the airlines satisfaction at almost its lowest level there are some airlines that are going to think twice about this."

But with big airline fees and gas reaching $4 a gallon, a lot of travelers might think twice about leaving home.

Meanwhile, the top executives of the country's five largest oil companies made a repeat appearance in Congress.

After being pummeled by senators over high oil and gasoline prices at a Senate hearing on Wednesday, they were summoned before the House Judiciary Committee on Thursday.

The executives reiterated much of what they had told the senators: The primary cause for high oil prices is tight supplies and growing demand, and that their profits - $36 billion during the first three months of the year - are not excessive given the size of their companies and the need for reinvestment to find more oil.

The executives urged more domestic oil and gas production by opening areas now off limits including large areas of federal offshore waters and a wildlife refuge in Alaska, where billions of barrels of oil are located. "This persistent denial of access is costing American consumers right out of their pocket books," said John Hofmeister, president of Shell Oil Co.

The other executives represented Exxon Mobil Corp., Chevron Corp., ConocoPhillips Co., and BPAmerica Inc.

Bodman, appearing at a separate hearing down the hall from the oilmen, also viewed the problem as essentially one of production not keeping up with demand.

Asked if he believed there was "rampant" speculation driving up oil prices, Bodman replied: "No. I don't."

The biggest problem, he said, is flat oil production and growing demand. Up to 2004, he said the world's producers pumped about 1 million barrels more oil each year, then production increased and so did demand. Demand continued to grow, but beginning in 2005 "there has been no change in global production" and "demand has outstripped supply."

"We have sopped up all the available spare (oil production) capacity in the system," said Bodman.

The world uses about 87 million barrels of oil a day, about a quarter of it in the United States.

Energy experts have acknowledged that most producers have little ability to pump more oil. The exception is Saudi Arabia, which is producing about 9.4 million barrels a day and has the ability to increase that by about 2 million barrels a day but have declined to do so.

Last week, the Saudis said they were boosting production by 300,000 barrels a day in June, but that was only to make up a decline in production by other OPEC countries.



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, Sans]© MMVIII, CBS Interactive Inc. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report. [/FONT]

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[Redmeat]

I'm still seeing idiots driving around tha ATL in their Hummers. Saw three of them just yesterday while driving to dinner. How the hell can these idiots afford 10 mpg at $4/gallon?

I hear ya.

We are pilots so we have one eye on fuel and price all the time. I think for the basic consumer it doesn't really hit home until they see their bottom line at the end of every month.

At some point that bottom line will effect even the most stubborn consumers habits regarding petroleum.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Cheney not releasing the SPR to lower oil prices but stock piling it.... further increasing oil...

http://www.youtube.com/swf/l.swf?vi...efault.jpg&t=OEgsToPDskIWW92q1NUPlUlsV922pdxh

 

[skywiz]

When will the oil bubble pop?

Quoted from cnn.com:

"Some analysts, however, believe that many commodities investors have boosted the price of crude with speculative trading, treating oil as a hedge against inflation due to the weakened dollar.
"You can't swing a cat without hitting a barrel of crude oil here: We have an over-supply in the United States," said Stephen Schork, editor of the energy industry newsletter The Schork Report. Schork estimates crude should be trading between $85 to $90 a barrel, given how oil has traded over the past 6 years. Accordingly, he thinks about $45 to $50 of crude's price can be chalked up to speculation.
"Saying this market is all supply and demand is absolutely ludicrous," he added.
Congress also isn't buying that supply and demand are the only factors. Wednesday, the Senate Judiciary Committee grilled executives from ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips Co. (COP, Fortune 500), Shell Oil Co. (RDSA), Chevron Corp. (CVX, Fortune 500) and BP (BP) as to how their companies can in good conscience make so much money, while Americans pay so much to heat their homes and fill up their cars. The hearing continued in the House of Representatives on Thursday."

 

[WTFOVER]

Ya know, our way of life is not sustainable. Suburbs are a 75 year fad. If you don't like commuting an hour each way to work then move closer to work. If you don't like the high price of food, plant a garden or buy locally.

The last thing we need to do is urge congress to drill for oil now in every nook and corner of the planet. If we continue using oil the way we do, and drilling to maintain that use, then we will be right back where we are now in 20-30 years. Only difference is there will be 8-9billion people on the planet instead of 6.5. And it will be more of a burden for our kids than ut will be for us.

I want to keep my job as much as any of you, but life goes on. One of my favorite quotes , "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it." Upton Sinclair. So get over your "it's my right" attitude.

I am so glad that we have a growing number of people in this country who are waking up to our stupidity and urging congress to do the right thing and not support more oil drilling.

 

[vetrider]

I'm sure there is a jungle somewhere you can go live in and wear flip flops handmade from weaving vegetation. I'm all for drilling myself.

 

[embpic1]

I would rather we go back to farming and start riding bicycles like they do in Europe.

Expensive oil is the best thing that has happened to this country in a a long time. It will FORCE change.

No more soccer moms in a F250 extended cab that gets 10 miles to the gallon driving to the store for a gallon of milk.

I agree. This oil crisis may be painful but hopefully it will force us to change. Alternative fuels such as hydrogen are the future. Look at the Hybrid market. It is flourishing. This is just the beginning hopefully. If the price of oil falls back to $50-$60/barrel this would devastate our quest for alternative fuels. We would be right back to the Hummers and Suburbans. We unfortunately have very short memories.

We can drill for oil all over the US and delay the what is happening now. Or we can use our heads and change to renewable fuels.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

I agree. Start writing your congressmen to START DRILLING NOW!!! Although it will take ~10 years to see that oil, the price will drop immediately!! Speculators will then stop betting that the price of oil will keep going up because they will know that we will have alot more oil from our own country.

Write your congressman to start drilling now!!

Thats all WE can do.[/quote]

Why waste your time writing the 535 'morons' in Washington DC, they won't listen. They spent most of the hearings with the oil company exec. asking them "how much money they make"?? At least they are paid to create 'value' for the U.S. economy, their companies, and their shareholders; the people questioning them are paid, $200,000+/yr. (of taxpayer's money), and create 'NO value' for the people, the economy or anyone, and have NO Answers to the problem of 'world oil supply.' The oil company execs. told congress to open up areas in the U.S. for oil exploration (U.S. coastal waters, etc).
However, all of that is going to fall on 'deaf ears' as congress is just looking for 'someone to BLAME.'
The U.S. congress has done absolutely NOTHING in the last 30yrs. to improve the energy situation for this country. At least the oil companies have done their part (and are willing to do more) and made a profit along the way, and aren't we still a 'capitalist country' Again, NOTHING has changed in the last 30yrs. and probably won't until gas prices hit $9.00/gal., we have gas lines and shortages, and the economy is close to being destroyed, then 'maybe' just maybe they will do something. (probably not even then, sorry to say).

We are one of the only countries in the world that refuses to drill for oil and natural gas in 'our own' Terrritorial Waters.

A Government of 'special interest' by special interest and for special interest; for a country populated by totally ignorant/stupid people. A majority of the American public don't even understand the problem, as I keep hearing people just say, "its those greedy oil companies, or the evil speculators, or the Saudis"

Blame, Blame, Blame. NO Solutions, and don't want to even understand the problem.

Ethanol; a policial, 'special interest scam' most people in the know admit that now, congress won't stop it.

ALL of the presidential candidates are proposing 'CO2 Caps' (McCain has already introduced legislation), noticed that none of them have told the American public that one 'big' result is that Your electric Bill will 'double or triple' in the next 3-4 yrs. That will go great with the $5-6.00/gal. for gas.

PCL128, that 'PFT moron' said on this thread, that more regulation is what is needed, but he really, really is STUPID; too much Gov't regulation and control is part of what has got us into this situation. We haven't built a new oil refinery in this country in about 30yrs., even though there is a company in AZ that has been trying to build a refinery for the last 8-9yrs., unable to get the EPA and appropriate Gov't approval. Thanks to the innovation of the oil companies that have 'expanded and improved' existing refinery capacity in this country, or we would be dependant on Foreign countries (imports) for most of our gas/diesel/jet fuel. As a result of the current regulations and current environment, it is unlikely that a new refinery will NEVER be built again in this country, maybe one, but that will be it.

Again, NO ONE, especially the congress or any of the presidential candidates have any knowledge, real solutions, or are smart enough to solve the problem, short term.

So get used to oil at $120-160/bbl (possibly 180-200), and gas at $4.00-6.00/gal. for the next few years. Sorry to say.

Said enough for now, for what its worth. Now rant away.

PD

 

[PlaneDrvr]

I agree. This oil crisis may be painful but hopefully it will force us to change. Alternative fuels such as hydrogen are the future. Look at the Hybrid market. It is flourishing. This is just the beginning hopefully. If the price of oil falls back to $50-$60/barrel this would devastate our quest for alternative fuels. We would be right back to the Hummers and Suburbans. We unfortunately have very short memories.

We can drill for oil all over the US and delay the what is happening now. Or we can use our heads and change to renewable fuels.

Nice thought, however, wide spread use of 'hydrogen' to power automobiles is probably 12-15yrs. away. Some keep talking about 'plug in hybrids' as the big solution, but when you plug them in, they have to have electric power to charge. Hybrids are interesting new technology, but they still don't get the mileage as promised, cost about $2,000-4,000 more than a comparable conventional model, the batteries last probably about 5-7 yrs. and cost about $5,000 to replace. Even with the increased used of wind and solar in recent years, it is still only about 3% of our total energy needs.

For the forseeable future, this country and our economy runs on 'Oil and Coal' and we need to find more, and have plenty of it HERE, but refuse to use it. Stupid and 'special interest' politics.

About 20-25yrs. ago, this country should have come up with an energy plan for the 'future' Including; building 25-35 nuclear power plants (the French get 75% of their electicity from nuclear power, sad when we are years behind the French), incentives to build more refineries, more Domestic oil/gas exploration (U.S. outer continential shelf), greater use of 'clean coal' technology (as this country has more coal than the middle east has oil), including incentives for 'coal to oil' liquification (produces a very 'clean' burning diesel fuel and jet fuel), increased use of wind and solar power, and so on.

Didn't do it then and probably won't do it now, 15yrs. too late. As everyone has their 'special pet projects' or golden solution. But, the key to the 'short term' problem is drilling for oil/gas Domestically (which we have here), but mark my word, They (congress, presidents to be) WON'T DO IT.

Ethanol is a 'huge, total Financial JOKE' but do you hear anyone in congress/gov't admitting it, and stopping it??? NO, 'politics' the 'blame game' But, NO solutions. Sorry.

For what its worth.

PD

 

[embpic1]

Nice thought, however, wide spread use of 'hydrogen' to power automobiles is probably 12-15yrs. away.
PD

I think it might be closer than you think.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/autos/0705/gallery.honda_fcx/index.html

Sure the infrastructure isn't there yet, but I think it might be in the next 5 years or so.

If gas prices keep going up ($6-$10/gal) something is going to have to give. Now maybe that will be unrestricted drilling. I am hoping it will be a major push for renewable fuels.

The imports are really coming out with some great hybrids. The big three are playing catchup, but they too are producing hybrids. I believe the hybrid will be a transition technology to things like hydrogen or pure electric power.

 

[Kugelblitz]

Mom and Dads' way of life is over....

Ya know, our way of life is not sustainable. Suburbs are a 75 year fad. If you don't like commuting an hour each way to work then move closer to work. If you don't like the high price of food, plant a garden or buy locally.

The last thing we need to do is urge congress to drill for oil now in every nook and corner of the planet. If we continue using oil the way we do, and drilling to maintain that use, then we will be right back where we are now in 20-30 years. Only difference is there will be 8-9billion people on the planet instead of 6.5. And it will be more of a burden for our kids than ut will be for us.

I want to keep my job as much as any of you, but life goes on. One of my favorite quotes , "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it." Upton Sinclair. So get over your "it's my right" attitude.

I am so glad that we have a growing number of people in this country who are waking up to our stupidity and urging congress to do the right thing and not support more oil drilling.

This really hits it on the head. The bottom line is our present way of life is not sustainable, and one of the principle reasons is it is based on a non-renewable fuel source. Even though many on the website think it is a 'faith based idea' and not reality, there is the climate change issue to figure into this.

 

[Dizel8]

Look, I don't mean to be insulting, but this is anti-capitalistic, anti-consumer, anti-free trade, anti-business, and anti-American (to name a few).

It certainly is different, but I wouldn't say anti capitalist etc., etc,.

Think about it this way, the oil companies do stand to make a profit on the deal, after all, they get an extraction fee. All along the chain, untill it goes into your car, the companies wil be making money, maybe not as much as now, but one could argue, that there is too much money made on oil, after all, we are currently $135 a barrel Never mind the fact, that most of the oil money is flowing out of the country.

Relistically, we currently do something similar, since the US goverment sells oil exploration leases. So, the US goverment determines a price for said lease, however, the free market controls the price of the oil. As we know, some of the leases were sold on the relatively cheap, and with the light of the current price of oil, the companies are making good money indeed.

We are also subsidizing in other areas, corn, wheat, sugar. Whether we do this through tariffs on foreign supplies or through direct money is realistically immaterial, recent farm bill is a good example. Corn ethanol is subsidized, which most would argue isn't a very sound idea, after all ethanol from corn is barely cost effective wrt. the energy derived and it drives corn prices up. OTOH, we have tariffs on sugar to protect domestic growers, but deriving ethanol from sugar makes a lot more sense.

The Alaskans gets money "directly" from the oil companies, since the companies, based upon price
and yield pays the state. The oil in AK belongs, if you will, to those who live in the state, but is extracted by oil companies. Seems like that is a win-win.

Like I said, just a back of the napkin kind of idea. No idea if it is at all workable, but on the other hand, not sure it would be unworkable. As long as big business gets paid and can profit, they would more than likely sign on.

As for those who say, that the current oil prices are good, I tend to agree up to a point. Current prices forces us into to finding other sources of energy and will accelerate that process, hybrids are increasingly seen on the roads, something that just five years ago was not the case. Honda and others have cars that run on NG and Hydrogen, with a filling station in your house that not only makes Hydrogen, but heats water and which can reduce your energy cost. The range of the car is currently adequate for most and the technology will only get better as it matures.

 

[Soverytired]

Melodramatic much? All he's describing is basically a highly regulated oil exploration and refinement industry. I think it's a valid idea. It would certainly need to be studied a lot more by economists and oil experts, but it's a valid idea on the surface. The almighty "free market" isn't the answer to everything. A little regulation can be a good thing in certain industries (our own included).

Heh. Only on flightinfo . . . gotta tailor the message to the audience, eh? It's true though. How do you think the good citizens of Utah felt when millions of acres of bituminous coal was taken away from them when WJC said it was a "historical monument" (made so by the mere stroke of his pen) and it belonged to all Americans . . .and was now off limits for anyone to develop?

The man asked what I thought. I stand by my answer. There's a fundamental misunderstanding of how oil prices are set. You could no more produce "US oil, for the US" than you could tax foreign countries for using "our" air. Maybe not that dramatic, but close.

You'll recall that price fixing (by Nixon, no less) was a disaster. It always is, it always will be.

No one is going to bid for contracts (as proposed by the original poster) that Congress will allow because they'll be so restrictive as to be ultimately unprofiatble ("You can pump right here, nowhere else, using this road, this method, at this rate of withdrawl, at this price, using this labor force, paid at this rate . . .. etc.).

Open it up. Western seaboard, eastern seaboard, ANWAR, Gulf coast for oil; coal shale and tar sands in Colorado, Utah, the Dakotas; the coasts and the mountains for wind generators, and everywhere nukes.

Won't cost the taxpayer a cent, won't take one bit of regulation, and it WILL lower energy costs. Oh, but politicians and bureaucrats won't get to run your life and steal your freedom, so I guess this isn't acceptable.

 

[Soverytired]

It certainly is different, but I wouldn't say anti capitalist etc., etc,.

Relistically, we currently do something similar, since the US goverment sells oil exploration leases. So, the US goverment determines a price for said lease, however, the free market controls the price of the oil. As we know, some of the leases were sold on the relatively cheap, and with the light of the current price of oil, the companies are making good money indeed.

The Alaskans gets money "directly" from the oil companies, since the companies, based upon price
and yield pays the state. The oil in AK belongs, if you will, to those who live in the state, but is extracted by oil companies. Seems like that is a win-win.

There's actually a lot in your post that I applaud. However, your primary thesis that the US would so tightly regulate production and price is untenable.

Your example of Alaksa is a good one. I think the US should open up pretty much everywhere for exploration and drilling. And yes, lease fee's definitely need to be adjusted based on the high value of the product. (same could be said for logging and mining rights, for that matter)

However, it is the price fixing and the "only sell US oil to US citizens" that make this unworkable. But otherwise . . if global production capacity went up 2-3%, oil prices would plummet (short term)

Besides . . . as much as high prices suck for US consumers and pilots, they'll also spur development of alternatives. It's the only thing that ever will . . . . the FREE MARKET AT WORK AGAIN!

 

[PCL_128]

Open it up. Western seaboard, eastern seaboard, ANWAR, Gulf coast for oil; coal shale and tar sands in Colorado, Utah, the Dakotas; the coasts and the mountains for wind generators, and everywhere nukes.

Sorry, but I'm not in favor of utterly destroying the US environment just to extract some more oil when our resources would be better spent on developing alternatives. You ever flown along the texas coast at night? See all of those lights out there in the gulf? Those are all oil platforms. As far as the eye can see. It's a disgusting sight, in my opinion, and I wouldn't want to see the same thing surrounding Florida and off of the California coast. I love nuke power, however. We need to build a few dozen nuclear reactors. All of our existing power plants should be replaced with nuke plants. There is no reason whatsoever to be using coal and oil fired power plants in this day and age.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Anybody watch CNBC today. A good discussion about the US Economy. While the merits of our discussions about the impact of oil and energy directly on our careers on this board are valid, the rest of the economic "tsunami" may be on the way.

We have propped ourselves up by taking the wealth from rising home values, and now with those values on the decline we see the credit mess we are currently in. The national debt around 9 trillion and climbing. Foreigners holding around %40 of that debt. Underfunded medicare and Social Security as the boomers retire that will add a huge chunk to the debt. Not a pretty picture.

A big part of the discussion concerned our attitudes. The fact that we quit saving and started borrowing because we "want it all and we want it now".

I can relate because I have in-laws that are "up to their eyeballs in debt" and can barely pay their finance charges. The father works, the mom works part time at home, but they don't make nearly enough to cover their expenses. They continue to add to their debt by spending on things they can do without.

Their attitude is "I don't want want to deprive my children (2 with one more on the way) so we will pay off our debt when the kids are older". They can't understand why my family is concerned about the economy.

Wow, if this is the attitude of the average american, we are in for a huge surprise.

I guess my point is not that these economic problems are looming, but the fact that so many people refuse recognize they even exist. At least to the degree where they would change their habits.

If you are in a hole stop digging.


Sorry for the rant....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I guess my point is not that these economic problems are looming, but the fact that so many people refuse recognize they even exist. At least to the degree where they would change their habits.

If you are in a hole stop digging.

When asked about the IRS refund check...

"I can't stand the gov't interferring with my life... I wish they'd just leave me alone......" Shortly followed by... "I can't wait to get my refund check!!"


and



"This country is totally phcuked!!!" followed by...
"I am going to get a flat screen TV with my refund check!!"



It all about me... me me....

 

[atrdriver]

Alternative fuels such as hydrogen are the future. Look at the Hybrid market. It is flourishing. This is just the beginning hopefully. I

Do you have any idea how much it costs in energy to produce that hydrogen? And where do you think all that electricity that it takes to make it (separate it actually) comes from? A lot of it comes from oil, and right now it is not cost effective to make it. Now if we converted 80-90% of our power production to nuke, then it would make sense. Right now it doesn't.