$135 a barrel

[skywiz]

When will the oil bubble pop?

Quoted from cnn.com:

"Some analysts, however, believe that many commodities investors have boosted the price of crude with speculative trading, treating oil as a hedge against inflation due to the weakened dollar.
"You can't swing a cat without hitting a barrel of crude oil here: We have an over-supply in the United States," said Stephen Schork, editor of the energy industry newsletter The Schork Report. Schork estimates crude should be trading between $85 to $90 a barrel, given how oil has traded over the past 6 years. Accordingly, he thinks about $45 to $50 of crude's price can be chalked up to speculation.
"Saying this market is all supply and demand is absolutely ludicrous," he added.
Congress also isn't buying that supply and demand are the only factors. Wednesday, the Senate Judiciary Committee grilled executives from ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips Co. (COP, Fortune 500), Shell Oil Co. (RDSA), Chevron Corp. (CVX, Fortune 500) and BP (BP) as to how their companies can in good conscience make so much money, while Americans pay so much to heat their homes and fill up their cars. The hearing continued in the House of Representatives on Thursday."

 

[WTFOVER]

Ya know, our way of life is not sustainable. Suburbs are a 75 year fad. If you don't like commuting an hour each way to work then move closer to work. If you don't like the high price of food, plant a garden or buy locally.

The last thing we need to do is urge congress to drill for oil now in every nook and corner of the planet. If we continue using oil the way we do, and drilling to maintain that use, then we will be right back where we are now in 20-30 years. Only difference is there will be 8-9billion people on the planet instead of 6.5. And it will be more of a burden for our kids than ut will be for us.

I want to keep my job as much as any of you, but life goes on. One of my favorite quotes , "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it." Upton Sinclair. So get over your "it's my right" attitude.

I am so glad that we have a growing number of people in this country who are waking up to our stupidity and urging congress to do the right thing and not support more oil drilling.

 

[vetrider]

I'm sure there is a jungle somewhere you can go live in and wear flip flops handmade from weaving vegetation. I'm all for drilling myself.

 

[embpic1]

I would rather we go back to farming and start riding bicycles like they do in Europe.

Expensive oil is the best thing that has happened to this country in a a long time. It will FORCE change.

No more soccer moms in a F250 extended cab that gets 10 miles to the gallon driving to the store for a gallon of milk.

I agree. This oil crisis may be painful but hopefully it will force us to change. Alternative fuels such as hydrogen are the future. Look at the Hybrid market. It is flourishing. This is just the beginning hopefully. If the price of oil falls back to $50-$60/barrel this would devastate our quest for alternative fuels. We would be right back to the Hummers and Suburbans. We unfortunately have very short memories.

We can drill for oil all over the US and delay the what is happening now. Or we can use our heads and change to renewable fuels.

 

[PlaneDrvr]

I agree. Start writing your congressmen to START DRILLING NOW!!! Although it will take ~10 years to see that oil, the price will drop immediately!! Speculators will then stop betting that the price of oil will keep going up because they will know that we will have alot more oil from our own country.

Write your congressman to start drilling now!!

Thats all WE can do.[/quote]

Why waste your time writing the 535 'morons' in Washington DC, they won't listen. They spent most of the hearings with the oil company exec. asking them "how much money they make"?? At least they are paid to create 'value' for the U.S. economy, their companies, and their shareholders; the people questioning them are paid, $200,000+/yr. (of taxpayer's money), and create 'NO value' for the people, the economy or anyone, and have NO Answers to the problem of 'world oil supply.' The oil company execs. told congress to open up areas in the U.S. for oil exploration (U.S. coastal waters, etc).
However, all of that is going to fall on 'deaf ears' as congress is just looking for 'someone to BLAME.'
The U.S. congress has done absolutely NOTHING in the last 30yrs. to improve the energy situation for this country. At least the oil companies have done their part (and are willing to do more) and made a profit along the way, and aren't we still a 'capitalist country' Again, NOTHING has changed in the last 30yrs. and probably won't until gas prices hit $9.00/gal., we have gas lines and shortages, and the economy is close to being destroyed, then 'maybe' just maybe they will do something. (probably not even then, sorry to say).

We are one of the only countries in the world that refuses to drill for oil and natural gas in 'our own' Terrritorial Waters.

A Government of 'special interest' by special interest and for special interest; for a country populated by totally ignorant/stupid people. A majority of the American public don't even understand the problem, as I keep hearing people just say, "its those greedy oil companies, or the evil speculators, or the Saudis"

Blame, Blame, Blame. NO Solutions, and don't want to even understand the problem.

Ethanol; a policial, 'special interest scam' most people in the know admit that now, congress won't stop it.

ALL of the presidential candidates are proposing 'CO2 Caps' (McCain has already introduced legislation), noticed that none of them have told the American public that one 'big' result is that Your electric Bill will 'double or triple' in the next 3-4 yrs. That will go great with the $5-6.00/gal. for gas.

PCL128, that 'PFT moron' said on this thread, that more regulation is what is needed, but he really, really is STUPID; too much Gov't regulation and control is part of what has got us into this situation. We haven't built a new oil refinery in this country in about 30yrs., even though there is a company in AZ that has been trying to build a refinery for the last 8-9yrs., unable to get the EPA and appropriate Gov't approval. Thanks to the innovation of the oil companies that have 'expanded and improved' existing refinery capacity in this country, or we would be dependant on Foreign countries (imports) for most of our gas/diesel/jet fuel. As a result of the current regulations and current environment, it is unlikely that a new refinery will NEVER be built again in this country, maybe one, but that will be it.

Again, NO ONE, especially the congress or any of the presidential candidates have any knowledge, real solutions, or are smart enough to solve the problem, short term.

So get used to oil at $120-160/bbl (possibly 180-200), and gas at $4.00-6.00/gal. for the next few years. Sorry to say.

Said enough for now, for what its worth. Now rant away.

PD

 

[PlaneDrvr]

I agree. This oil crisis may be painful but hopefully it will force us to change. Alternative fuels such as hydrogen are the future. Look at the Hybrid market. It is flourishing. This is just the beginning hopefully. If the price of oil falls back to $50-$60/barrel this would devastate our quest for alternative fuels. We would be right back to the Hummers and Suburbans. We unfortunately have very short memories.

We can drill for oil all over the US and delay the what is happening now. Or we can use our heads and change to renewable fuels.

Nice thought, however, wide spread use of 'hydrogen' to power automobiles is probably 12-15yrs. away. Some keep talking about 'plug in hybrids' as the big solution, but when you plug them in, they have to have electric power to charge. Hybrids are interesting new technology, but they still don't get the mileage as promised, cost about $2,000-4,000 more than a comparable conventional model, the batteries last probably about 5-7 yrs. and cost about $5,000 to replace. Even with the increased used of wind and solar in recent years, it is still only about 3% of our total energy needs.

For the forseeable future, this country and our economy runs on 'Oil and Coal' and we need to find more, and have plenty of it HERE, but refuse to use it. Stupid and 'special interest' politics.

About 20-25yrs. ago, this country should have come up with an energy plan for the 'future' Including; building 25-35 nuclear power plants (the French get 75% of their electicity from nuclear power, sad when we are years behind the French), incentives to build more refineries, more Domestic oil/gas exploration (U.S. outer continential shelf), greater use of 'clean coal' technology (as this country has more coal than the middle east has oil), including incentives for 'coal to oil' liquification (produces a very 'clean' burning diesel fuel and jet fuel), increased use of wind and solar power, and so on.

Didn't do it then and probably won't do it now, 15yrs. too late. As everyone has their 'special pet projects' or golden solution. But, the key to the 'short term' problem is drilling for oil/gas Domestically (which we have here), but mark my word, They (congress, presidents to be) WON'T DO IT.

Ethanol is a 'huge, total Financial JOKE' but do you hear anyone in congress/gov't admitting it, and stopping it??? NO, 'politics' the 'blame game' But, NO solutions. Sorry.

For what its worth.

PD

 

[embpic1]

Nice thought, however, wide spread use of 'hydrogen' to power automobiles is probably 12-15yrs. away.
PD

I think it might be closer than you think.

http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/autos/0705/gallery.honda_fcx/index.html

Sure the infrastructure isn't there yet, but I think it might be in the next 5 years or so.

If gas prices keep going up ($6-$10/gal) something is going to have to give. Now maybe that will be unrestricted drilling. I am hoping it will be a major push for renewable fuels.

The imports are really coming out with some great hybrids. The big three are playing catchup, but they too are producing hybrids. I believe the hybrid will be a transition technology to things like hydrogen or pure electric power.

 

[Kugelblitz]

Mom and Dads' way of life is over....

Ya know, our way of life is not sustainable. Suburbs are a 75 year fad. If you don't like commuting an hour each way to work then move closer to work. If you don't like the high price of food, plant a garden or buy locally.

The last thing we need to do is urge congress to drill for oil now in every nook and corner of the planet. If we continue using oil the way we do, and drilling to maintain that use, then we will be right back where we are now in 20-30 years. Only difference is there will be 8-9billion people on the planet instead of 6.5. And it will be more of a burden for our kids than ut will be for us.

I want to keep my job as much as any of you, but life goes on. One of my favorite quotes , "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it." Upton Sinclair. So get over your "it's my right" attitude.

I am so glad that we have a growing number of people in this country who are waking up to our stupidity and urging congress to do the right thing and not support more oil drilling.

This really hits it on the head. The bottom line is our present way of life is not sustainable, and one of the principle reasons is it is based on a non-renewable fuel source. Even though many on the website think it is a 'faith based idea' and not reality, there is the climate change issue to figure into this.

 

[Dizel8]

Look, I don't mean to be insulting, but this is anti-capitalistic, anti-consumer, anti-free trade, anti-business, and anti-American (to name a few).

It certainly is different, but I wouldn't say anti capitalist etc., etc,.

Think about it this way, the oil companies do stand to make a profit on the deal, after all, they get an extraction fee. All along the chain, untill it goes into your car, the companies wil be making money, maybe not as much as now, but one could argue, that there is too much money made on oil, after all, we are currently $135 a barrel Never mind the fact, that most of the oil money is flowing out of the country.

Relistically, we currently do something similar, since the US goverment sells oil exploration leases. So, the US goverment determines a price for said lease, however, the free market controls the price of the oil. As we know, some of the leases were sold on the relatively cheap, and with the light of the current price of oil, the companies are making good money indeed.

We are also subsidizing in other areas, corn, wheat, sugar. Whether we do this through tariffs on foreign supplies or through direct money is realistically immaterial, recent farm bill is a good example. Corn ethanol is subsidized, which most would argue isn't a very sound idea, after all ethanol from corn is barely cost effective wrt. the energy derived and it drives corn prices up. OTOH, we have tariffs on sugar to protect domestic growers, but deriving ethanol from sugar makes a lot more sense.

The Alaskans gets money "directly" from the oil companies, since the companies, based upon price
and yield pays the state. The oil in AK belongs, if you will, to those who live in the state, but is extracted by oil companies. Seems like that is a win-win.

Like I said, just a back of the napkin kind of idea. No idea if it is at all workable, but on the other hand, not sure it would be unworkable. As long as big business gets paid and can profit, they would more than likely sign on.

As for those who say, that the current oil prices are good, I tend to agree up to a point. Current prices forces us into to finding other sources of energy and will accelerate that process, hybrids are increasingly seen on the roads, something that just five years ago was not the case. Honda and others have cars that run on NG and Hydrogen, with a filling station in your house that not only makes Hydrogen, but heats water and which can reduce your energy cost. The range of the car is currently adequate for most and the technology will only get better as it matures.

 

[Soverytired]

Melodramatic much? All he's describing is basically a highly regulated oil exploration and refinement industry. I think it's a valid idea. It would certainly need to be studied a lot more by economists and oil experts, but it's a valid idea on the surface. The almighty "free market" isn't the answer to everything. A little regulation can be a good thing in certain industries (our own included).

Heh. Only on flightinfo . . . gotta tailor the message to the audience, eh? It's true though. How do you think the good citizens of Utah felt when millions of acres of bituminous coal was taken away from them when WJC said it was a "historical monument" (made so by the mere stroke of his pen) and it belonged to all Americans . . .and was now off limits for anyone to develop?

The man asked what I thought. I stand by my answer. There's a fundamental misunderstanding of how oil prices are set. You could no more produce "US oil, for the US" than you could tax foreign countries for using "our" air. Maybe not that dramatic, but close.

You'll recall that price fixing (by Nixon, no less) was a disaster. It always is, it always will be.

No one is going to bid for contracts (as proposed by the original poster) that Congress will allow because they'll be so restrictive as to be ultimately unprofiatble ("You can pump right here, nowhere else, using this road, this method, at this rate of withdrawl, at this price, using this labor force, paid at this rate . . .. etc.).

Open it up. Western seaboard, eastern seaboard, ANWAR, Gulf coast for oil; coal shale and tar sands in Colorado, Utah, the Dakotas; the coasts and the mountains for wind generators, and everywhere nukes.

Won't cost the taxpayer a cent, won't take one bit of regulation, and it WILL lower energy costs. Oh, but politicians and bureaucrats won't get to run your life and steal your freedom, so I guess this isn't acceptable.

 

[Soverytired]

It certainly is different, but I wouldn't say anti capitalist etc., etc,.

Relistically, we currently do something similar, since the US goverment sells oil exploration leases. So, the US goverment determines a price for said lease, however, the free market controls the price of the oil. As we know, some of the leases were sold on the relatively cheap, and with the light of the current price of oil, the companies are making good money indeed.

The Alaskans gets money "directly" from the oil companies, since the companies, based upon price
and yield pays the state. The oil in AK belongs, if you will, to those who live in the state, but is extracted by oil companies. Seems like that is a win-win.

There's actually a lot in your post that I applaud. However, your primary thesis that the US would so tightly regulate production and price is untenable.

Your example of Alaksa is a good one. I think the US should open up pretty much everywhere for exploration and drilling. And yes, lease fee's definitely need to be adjusted based on the high value of the product. (same could be said for logging and mining rights, for that matter)

However, it is the price fixing and the "only sell US oil to US citizens" that make this unworkable. But otherwise . . if global production capacity went up 2-3%, oil prices would plummet (short term)

Besides . . . as much as high prices suck for US consumers and pilots, they'll also spur development of alternatives. It's the only thing that ever will . . . . the FREE MARKET AT WORK AGAIN!

 

[PCL_128]

Open it up. Western seaboard, eastern seaboard, ANWAR, Gulf coast for oil; coal shale and tar sands in Colorado, Utah, the Dakotas; the coasts and the mountains for wind generators, and everywhere nukes.

Sorry, but I'm not in favor of utterly destroying the US environment just to extract some more oil when our resources would be better spent on developing alternatives. You ever flown along the texas coast at night? See all of those lights out there in the gulf? Those are all oil platforms. As far as the eye can see. It's a disgusting sight, in my opinion, and I wouldn't want to see the same thing surrounding Florida and off of the California coast. I love nuke power, however. We need to build a few dozen nuclear reactors. All of our existing power plants should be replaced with nuke plants. There is no reason whatsoever to be using coal and oil fired power plants in this day and age.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Anybody watch CNBC today. A good discussion about the US Economy. While the merits of our discussions about the impact of oil and energy directly on our careers on this board are valid, the rest of the economic "tsunami" may be on the way.

We have propped ourselves up by taking the wealth from rising home values, and now with those values on the decline we see the credit mess we are currently in. The national debt around 9 trillion and climbing. Foreigners holding around %40 of that debt. Underfunded medicare and Social Security as the boomers retire that will add a huge chunk to the debt. Not a pretty picture.

A big part of the discussion concerned our attitudes. The fact that we quit saving and started borrowing because we "want it all and we want it now".

I can relate because I have in-laws that are "up to their eyeballs in debt" and can barely pay their finance charges. The father works, the mom works part time at home, but they don't make nearly enough to cover their expenses. They continue to add to their debt by spending on things they can do without.

Their attitude is "I don't want want to deprive my children (2 with one more on the way) so we will pay off our debt when the kids are older". They can't understand why my family is concerned about the economy.

Wow, if this is the attitude of the average american, we are in for a huge surprise.

I guess my point is not that these economic problems are looming, but the fact that so many people refuse recognize they even exist. At least to the degree where they would change their habits.

If you are in a hole stop digging.


Sorry for the rant....

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I guess my point is not that these economic problems are looming, but the fact that so many people refuse recognize they even exist. At least to the degree where they would change their habits.

If you are in a hole stop digging.

When asked about the IRS refund check...

"I can't stand the gov't interferring with my life... I wish they'd just leave me alone......" Shortly followed by... "I can't wait to get my refund check!!"


and



"This country is totally phcuked!!!" followed by...
"I am going to get a flat screen TV with my refund check!!"



It all about me... me me....

 

[atrdriver]

Alternative fuels such as hydrogen are the future. Look at the Hybrid market. It is flourishing. This is just the beginning hopefully. I

Do you have any idea how much it costs in energy to produce that hydrogen? And where do you think all that electricity that it takes to make it (separate it actually) comes from? A lot of it comes from oil, and right now it is not cost effective to make it. Now if we converted 80-90% of our power production to nuke, then it would make sense. Right now it doesn't.