13 More New hires today at FedEx

[WorldOnTime]

RJ not a bad transition

Or an USAF AMC pilot looking to leave AD or stop Guard bumming. C-17/MD-11 have similar cockpit, KC-10/DC-10 is an easy transition etc. It would definitely be an easier transition than some guy coming from fighters or RJs.

Obviously, the RJ is not anywhere near the size. However, there are a lot of pluses: glass, FMS and two person cockpit. The FMS kills a lot of guys that aren't used to computers or just haven't used it before. 60 wpm is the min!!

 

[Malter1]

I've never flown a heavy but I have flown both glass and round dial, and glass is easier! Why do people make it out to be such a mystical beast? It's a lot like airlines wanting guys with "jet" time. Jets are also a lot easier to fly than a recip or a turboprop. As a simple, caveman fighter pilot, am I missing something here?

 

[WorldOnTime]

I've never flown a heavy but I have flown both glass and round dial, and glass is easier! Why do people make it out to be such a mystical beast? It's a lot like airlines wanting guys with "jet" time. Jets are also a lot easier to fly than a recip or a turboprop. As a simple, caveman fighter pilot, am I missing something here?

Totally agree.

 

[sandman2122]

Just flare higher.

OR flare when you hear the radio altimeter say "TEN".....works like butter in the Airbus.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Obviously, the RJ is not anywhere near the size. However, there are a lot of pluses: glass, FMS and two person cockpit. The FMS kills a lot of guys that aren't used to computers or just haven't used it before. 60 wpm is the min!!

Actually, 60 WPM would cause the MD11 FMS to lock-up.

 

[AKlimey]

More like 6 WPM, and flare at 30...

 

[hoya saxa]

Actually, 60 WPM would cause the MD11 FMS to lock-up.

Not with the Pegasus load! That b!tch will take more abuse than a pimp-battered ho! BTW, Albie, why the fear and mysticism of the Mega Deathship?! This stuff just ain't that hard. Let's not kid ourselves. The only hard part is understanding them dadgum foreign controllers.

hoya, recovering pointy nosed Angry Canine guy

 

[IrishSkies]

Question about the bid and excesses;
I'm a junior guy on the back of the 10 (guess that's anyone under 60 these days) anyhow it looks like the day is rapidly approaching when they're goiing to start squezzing S/O's out the back side.....what fate awaits me and any recommendations on how it could affect my bid decision?
I tried to decypher the contract on excesses but I don't speak lawyer.
Thanks

 

[CaptainMark]

FEDEX is correct about one thing when it comes to bidding..they always say BID WHAT YOU WANT TO FLY! it is great advice...it is simple...you want the bus..fly the bus..you want the 11..go fly it..and if for some god awful reason you want to fly the POS boeing..go fly it...it is that easy..you will have a big decision to make...enjoy it!

 

[FedEx]

Open Time

Don't mean to change subjects, but maybe I am missing something. The company said that they are doing AVA in the MD. So when you look at opentime in the MD, there is no open flying. Or you will see a open tirp weeks away, then POOF it is gone. Why are we doing this to ourselves? If you pick it up, atleast pick it up at AVA.

 

[stonewall]

FEDEX is correct about one thing when it comes to bidding..they always say BID WHAT YOU WANT TO FLY! it is great advice...it is simple...you want the bus..fly the bus..you want the 11..go fly it..and if for some god awful reason you want to fly the POS boeing..go fly it...it is that easy..you will have a big decision to make...enjoy it!

It's actually not quite that simple. I want to fly the Boeing right now for a variety of reasons, and I do. However, if they seat freeze boeing guys in the back and right seats, I could potentially be flying the Boeing at WB pay rates. If I'm eligible for passover pay and won't have a WB training date for two years due to a seat lock, it would be smart to bid a WB, right? I'd get WB pay for NB flying. If I just bid what I want (the Boeing) there will be (potentially) a lot of guys flying the right seat with me for an extra $20/hr b/c they bid the WB. However, mgmt isn't giving us all the info about potential seat freezes, all the req's for passover pay, etc. To be fair, they may not know exactly. But it would nice to have ALL the facts and info about what might happen before you bid.

It's probably good advice to bid what you want to fly, but, like I said, it ain't quite that simple when you're talking about a potential 20K/year extra for doing the same job.

 

[twgordy]

Correct me if I'm wrong...if your currently in the right seat of the 27 and you bid the right seat of a WB. If you become eligable for passover pay due to a seat freeze, or other reasons, you will not recieve the pay difference until you check out in the right seat of the WB you moved to.

 

[Falconjet]

It's actually not quite that simple. I want to fly the Boeing right now for a variety of reasons, and I do. However, if they seat freeze boeing guys in the back and right seats, I could potentially be flying the Boeing at WB pay rates. If I'm eligible for passover pay and won't have a WB training date for two years due to a seat lock, it would be smart to bid a WB, right? I'd get WB pay for NB flying. If I just bid what I want (the Boeing) there will be (potentially) a lot of guys flying the right seat with me for an extra $20/hr b/c they bid the WB. However, mgmt isn't giving us all the info about potential seat freezes, all the req's for passover pay, etc. To be fair, they may not know exactly. But it would nice to have ALL the facts and info about what might happen before you bid.

It's probably good advice to bid what you want to fly, but, like I said, it ain't quite that simple when you're talking about a potential 20K/year extra for doing the same job.

Mag: This is where you are taking a chance, which is why they say bid what you want to fly. If you bid and hold right seat of the BUS, you may very well go to training in the first class. Probably not, but it could. In which case, you won't get passover, you will be earning your seat pay and you will be very junior in the seat once you activate.

If you don't bid the BUS, but bid the right seat of the Boeing because that is what you want to fly, you will go to training according to the training letter. Could be early or late, just like the Bus. But you will be more senior in your seat once you activate.

Now, if you are waiting for training in either of those seats and they train someone junior to you who held it on the same or a subsequent POSTING, then you get the passover pay.



I hope this helps and also that I didn't goober anything up.

FJ

 

[USNFDX]

Don't mean to change subjects, but maybe I am missing something. The company said that they are doing AVA in the MD. So when you look at open time in the MD, there is no open flying. Or you will see a open Trip weeks away, then POOF it is gone. Why are we doing this to ourselves? If you pick it up, at least pick it up at AVA.

Lot of new guys who just checked out in the MD are trying to consolidate. Many are doing make up. Lots of guys on reserve. 47 for tomorrow. I doubt they are approving any AVA requests.

AVA is triggered by Vacation buy back as per the CBA. VBB must be announced in advance. They decide how much they buy back. In this particular situation, they may only be buying back guys in the training dept. So long in short is they have to entertain AVA requests because they announced VBB, but they only have to approve them when it is to their advantage.

 

[Falconjet]

deleted

FJ

 

[stonewall]

Mag: This is where you are taking a chance, which is why they say bid what you want to fly. If you bid and hold right seat of the BUS, you may very well go to training in the first class. Probably not, but it could. In which case, you won't get passover (POPA), you will be earning your seat pay and you will be very junior in the seat once you activate.

If you don't bid the BUS, but bid the right seat of the Boeing because that is what you want to fly, you will go to training according to the training letter. Could be early or late, just like the Bus. But you will be more senior in your seat once you activate.

Now, if you are waiting for training in either of those seats and they train someone junior to you who held it on the same or a subsequent POSTING, then you get the POPA. I'm not sure if a new hire constitutes a same or subsequent posting or not. There has been some disagreement on that here on the boards and I can't figure it out from reading the contract.

But, in order to get the POPA, you have to bid and hold the seat, and then the company has to train someone junior to you who also held it on the same or subsequent posting. You don't start to get the POPA until the junior pilot activates in the new seat position.

Incidently, if you are eligible for POPA, you still get paid at rate you are currently in. At the end of the month you get a PassOverPayAdjustment that is equal to the Average BLG in your new seat minus the actual BLG/RLG that you held in your current seat.

Ex: Ave BLG for Bus is 73 hours X 119 = 8687.

Your BLG for the same month is say 74 in the Boeing 74 X 86 = 6364.

Your POPA for that month will be $2323.

If you work a draft trip you get paid at the rate that you are working, not the rate that you are getting POPA for.

I hope this helps and also that I didn't goober anything up.

FJ

No, that's good info. I, along with many others, don't fully understand all the ramifications of what COULD happen with a seat freeze. I'm in the right seat now, and I'm wondering if I bid, say, the bus, and get a training date in June. What happens if they seat freeze me in the right seat of the 72 in April for 2 years, and a new hire activates in the bus in Aug. Will I get the POPA adjustment for the next two years (since I didn't go to training and was frozen) if a new hire activates? I have no clue. I mean, if that was the case and we knew a freeze was coming, that's almost worth a roll of the dice. The downside being that I could end up going to training in the bus instead of my little scheme coming to fruition. I want to end up there someday anyway, just not now.

These are the types of questions I'd like some intel on. Is a seat freeze coming? Does POPA apply to newhires activated ahead of you? Are newhires even going to the right seat of the widebodies? I realize mgmt may not know the answers to any of these questions, however.

I'm probably going to keep my 727 f/o bid and not move. But I'd like to have all the facts on the plan before I bid. Make sense?

 

[Wojo]

Just flew with an ALPA block rep who was getting ready to send out a block email which I read - he clarified that passover pay would be awarded if a new hire starts training before you on an awarded seat. You would not receive the passover pay until you finish training for that seat though - could be a while. I believe JL's recent email said the same.

 

[Falconjet]

Makes great sense. If I were in the right and wanted to stay there for 2 years, I wouldn't bid the Bus. But if I wanted to fly the Bus at the earliest oportunity, I would bid it and hope for the best.

I don't think there is going to be a seat freeze per se. Its just that there won't be another bid (other than a small clean up once in a while) for a couple of years. So you just won't have another oportunity to bid out for a couple of years. Its not really a seat lock (like you would have after a few training failures), its just that there won't be any chance of bidding out for a while.

Thus the advice, bid what you want, because you will be stuck there for a couple of years. I wouldn't bank on bidding the Bus for passover hoping for seat freeze. It might work, it might not. I would definitely bid out now if I had any desire to move up in the next two years.

FJ

 

[Falconjet]

Ok, I did have that mixed up. I was rambling on about POPA, and really Passover Pay Due to Junior Pilot's Early Activation is what is pertinent in this case.

Thanks FDX Capt!

FJ

 

[Falconjet]

deleted. Wrong info.

FJ

 

[Falconjet]

deleted, wrong topic.

FJ

With much egg.

 

[FDXCapt]

POPA vs. Passover

Maybe you don't get the POPA until you activate, but it would have to be retroactive to when the junior guy activated, otherwise it wouldn't really be passover pay. If that is the case you would get a big lump sum down the road.

This is not how it worked for me however, so I don't think it is correct.

FJ

Just so that there is no confusion, remember that Passover Pay and POPA are two different animals. See Section 24.D. and the LOA signed Nov. 2002 for details.
FC

 

[Falconjet]

With Passover, you DO have to activate into the crew position.

It starts when the junior pilot activates, and ends when the senior pilot activates (or withdraws or was projected to have finished if they have moved to a different seat).

Then the passover is paid in a lump sum within 30 days of that date.

Thanks FDXCapt.

Do you know for sure if newhires constitute the same posting or subsequent posting?

FJ

 

[Falconjet]

No, it was mostly bad info

No, that's good info. I, along with many others, don't fully understand all the ramifications of what COULD happen with a seat freeze. I'm in the right seat now, and I'm wondering if I bid, say, the bus, and get a training date in June. What happens if they seat freeze me in the right seat of the 72 in April for 2 years, and a new hire activates in the bus in Aug. Will I get the POPA adjustment for the next two years (since I didn't go to training and was frozen) if a new hire activates? I have no clue. I mean, if that was the case and we knew a freeze was coming, that's almost worth a roll of the dice. The downside being that I could end up going to training in the bus instead of my little scheme coming to fruition. I want to end up there someday anyway, just not now.

These are the types of questions I'd like some intel on. Is a seat freeze coming? Does POPA apply to newhires activated ahead of you? Are newhires even going to the right seat of the widebodies? I realize mgmt may not know the answers to any of these questions, however.

I'm probably going to keep my 727 f/o bid and not move. But I'd like to have all the facts on the plan before I bid. Make sense?

Magnum: Some of what I said was correct, but a lot of it is wrong, as I was confusing POPA with Passover for a junior pilot's early activation.

So, if you bid the Bus and they delay your training to send a junior pilot who held the Bus on the same or subsequent posting, then you would start passover pay when he activated. You would accrue it until YOUR activation date (or a couple of other possibilities) and then the lump sum would be paid to you within 30 days of YOUR activation. So its not a monthly thing like POPA.

That being said, the risk of actually going to the training on time and being really junior in the seat remains the same.

Sorry for the bad qouge. Thanks FDXCapt for clearing that up for me!

FJ

 

[stonewall]

Magnum: Some of what I said was correct, but a lot of it is wrong, as I was confusing POPA with Passover for a junior pilot's early activation.

So, if you bid the Bus and they delay your training to send a junior pilot who held the Bus on the same or subsequent posting, then you would start passover pay when he activated. You would accrue it until YOUR activation date (or a couple of other possibilities) and then the lump sum would be paid to you within 30 days of YOUR activation. So its not a monthly thing like POPA.

That being said, the risk of actually going to the training on time and being really junior in the seat remains the same.

Sorry for the bad qouge. Thanks FDXCapt for clearing that up for me!

FJ

Good words. I thought if you moved or delayed your training for whatever reason and allowed a junior guy to move ahead of you, you were no longer elibigible for passover pay. I guess the intent is so you can't manuever yourself to trigger passover pay.

I think it probably is a good idea just to bid where you want to be for the next two years. Too many variables to do otherwise, I think. For me anyway.

 

[Ninerfan]

POPA vs. Passover Pay, Trading Trng Dates

Looks to me that Pay Only Passover Pay (POPA) applies to pilots on pay only status like Flexs and PCAs. It's covered in Sec. 9 and 11. I couldn't find a LOA on it. Passover Pay is in Sec. 24.

Here is my question. I originally had a spring MD11 trng date (from the last seat bid) and traded for a summer date. If the company puts a new hire in the right seat of the MD in the next month or so. What class/activation date does the co. use to compute my passover pay? The original date or the new date I traded for? What if I traded for even a later date again? Would my passover pay accrue while I waiting for the later date?

I think I see in the contract that they pay passover pay as a lump sum within 30 days of activation in the new seat. Is that correct?

 

[FedExFlyer]

Looks to me that Pay Only Passover Pay (POPA) applies to pilots on pay only status like Flexs and PCAs. It's covered in Sec. 9 and 11. I couldn't find a LOA on it. Passover Pay is in Sec. 24.

Here is my question. I originally had a spring MD11 trng date (from the last seat bid) and traded for a summer date. If the company puts a new hire in the right seat of the MD in the next month or so. What class/activation date does the co. use to compute my passover pay? The original date or the new date I traded for? What if I traded for even a later date again? Would my passover pay accrue while I waiting for the later date?

I think I see in the contract that they pay passover pay as a lump sum within 30 days of activation in the new seat. Is that correct?

No passover pay if a "new-hire" is activated in your seat that you have bid already. This has been verified by ALPA.

 

[P3tarbaby]

Looks to me that Pay Only Passover Pay (POPA) applies to pilots on pay only status like Flexs and PCAs. It's covered in Sec. 9 and 11. I couldn't find a LOA on it. Passover Pay is in Sec. 24.

Here is my question. I originally had a spring MD11 trng date (from the last seat bid) and traded for a summer date. If the company puts a new hire in the right seat of the MD in the next month or so. What class/activation date does the co. use to compute my passover pay? The original date or the new date I traded for? What if I traded for even a later date again? Would my passover pay accrue while I waiting for the later date?

I think I see in the contract that they pay passover pay as a lump sum within 30 days of activation in the new seat. Is that correct?

The company will use your original assigned training date to compute passover pay NOT any later date that you traded for.

 

[Ninerfan]

Hmmm...

No passover pay if a "new-hire" is activated in your seat that you have bid already. This has been verified by ALPA.

FedExFlyer: Could I ask who in ALPA? Contract enforcement? I received a crew notification back in April of last year that stated I was eligible for passover when that first group of new hires was activated in the 727FO seat and I was waiting to go to ITU. Of course, it made no difference because I was on 1st year pay. Pls PM me...I'm gonna call ALPA later today. Thx.

 

[P3tarbaby]

No passover pay if a "new-hire" is activated in your seat that you have bid already. This has been verified by ALPA.

I don't think this is true. I know people who got it and I would have gotten it if I hadn't traded training dates. Call crew pay.