125-seat Bombardier CS300 almost ready for first flight - more orders in US?

[johnsonrod]

The C-series is so far into mainline on every scope clause that it can't start at the small carriers and nibble away at scope clauses like Embrauer is trying to do with the E series. This means it has to go head to head with both Boeing and Airbus, and to win orders it needs to be demonstrably better. From what I've read, they've done it, but at great cost in $$ and delays. With 737 NG and A319 as competition, they look great. But the longer the delays, the closer we get to NEOs and MAXs, which will level the playing field.

I fear that Bombardier has misplayed this, and will have to rely on start-ups or other carriers not heavily vested in Boeing/Airbus. The product looks compelling, but can Bombardier afford to keep funding it until it is self-sufficient?

Have you seen this chart below? A319 NEO and 737-700 can't compare with the CS300 in terms of efficiency:

http://airinsight.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/casm-chart.jpg

UAL is already very familiar with Bombardier through the CRJ series and Q400. The C-Series can also fly more than 2,000 miles full and it can operate on short runways like Aspen or London City - it offers amazing flexibility that the A319 NEO can't offer and a FBW system not available on the future 737-700 MAX.

With 40 airframe slots (and some options) from Republic, any of the legacies could add the CS300 relatively quickly once testing is finally done. Again, time will tell...

 

[jonjuan]

Have you seen this chart below? A319 NEO and 737-700 can't compare with the CS300 in terms of efficiency:

http://airinsight.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/casm-chart.jpg

UAL is already very familiar with Bombardier through the CRJ series and Q400. The C-Series can also fly more than 2,000 miles full and it can operate on short runways like Aspen or London City - it offers amazing flexibility that the A319 NEO can't offer and a FBW system not available on the future 737-700 MAX.

With 40 airframe slots (and some options) from Republic, any of the legacies could add the CS300 relatively quickly once testing is finally done. Again, time will tell...

if everything you posted were even remotely accurate, they would have hundreds if not thousands of orders. AB and BA will not let them in the door.

 

[WSurf]

American Airlines already has Group 1 rates. Look for them to dump there 20 EMB-190's and get a bunch of these while parking Airbus 319's.

 

[johnsonrod]

if everything you posted were even remotely accurate, they would have hundreds if not thousands of orders. AB and BA will not let them in the door.[/QUOTE

AB and Boeing basically created their NEO and MAX versions partly because of the C-Series threat. Until the CS300 proves itself and confirms its performance estimates it won't get any huge orders. Everyone wants to see performance confirmation first. No big surprise.

 

[jonjuan]

if everything you posted were even remotely accurate, they would have hundreds if not thousands of orders. AB and BA will not let them in the door.[/QUOTE

AB and Boeing basically created their NEO and MAX versions partly because of the C-Series threat. Until the CS300 proves itself and confirms its performance estimates it won't get any huge orders. Everyone wants to see performance confirmation first. No big surprise.

They do? 787, A350, neo/max all have huge orders well ahead of "performance confirmation."

 

[johnsonrod]

They do? 787, A350, neo/max all have huge orders well ahead of "performance confirmation."

Thank god you are such a genius Juan - you have figured it all out. Richard Anderson was quoted in an article recently saying they like the Pratt and Whitney Geared Turbo Fan (GTF) used on the CS300 but Delta wants to see the aircraft flying before they consider ordering it. Who knows if they will actually order it...

Plus, the CS300 will be debuting at the Paris Airshow for the first time in June. Orders may follow....

 

[jonjuan]

Thank god you are such a genius Juan - you have figured it all out. Richard Anderson was quoted in an article recently saying they like the Pratt and Whitney Geared Turbo Fan (GTF) used on the CS300 but Delta wants to see the aircraft flying before they consider ordering it. Who knows if they will actually order it...

Plus, the CS300 will be debuting at the Paris Airshow for the first time in June. Orders may follow....

We'll see who the real dummy is.

 

[johnsonrod]

Bring it!!!

 

[Heavy Set]

That's some pretty could range capability for the C-Series:

http://commercialaircraft.bombardier.com/en/cseries/Flexibility/Range-Capabilities.html

NYC to Quito or NYC to LA/Vancouver - not bad at all.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

That's some pretty could range capability for the C-Series:

http://commercialaircraft.bombardier.com/en/cseries/Flexibility/Range-Capabilities.html

NYC to Quito or NYC to LA/Vancouver - not bad at all.

I thought the Toronto ring was interesting, given its predicated taking off from Toronto Island Airport (<5000' TODA) - then going down as far as BOG.

 

[Russ]

Johnsonrod

The C-Series can also fly more than 2,000 miles full and it can operate on short runways like Aspen

It may have the performance to operate at ASE, but is too heavy and has too great a wingspan to operate there under current rules.

 

[General Lee]

Johnsonrod



It may have the performance to operate at ASE, but is too heavy and has too great a wingspan to operate there under current rules.

Russ,

Is it bigger than a Bae 146? Those operated into ASE with great frequency, and I think they were bigger than your CR7s.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Russ]

Wingspan limit of 95 ft and weight limit of 100K. The wingspan limit is due to taxiway proximity to the runway and to a berm adjacent to the taxiway. The 100K limit is more arbitrary, in place to placate some in the community about larger aircraft coming into ASE. There's talk of moving the runway, at least in part to allow larger wingspan aircraft. Doing so, and lifting the 100K restriction is a tall order. Simply adding 1000 ft of runway to existing airport property took quite some time. I think the 700 will soldier on in ASE for quite some time.

 

[johnsonrod]

CS300 just arrived in Paris for the airshow

Pretty looking airplane with impressive performance numbers:

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/574012/c-ffdk-bombardier-bombardier-cs300/

Would love to see some flying for the legacies by legacy pilots. This thing is far more efficient than any old E190 or E195... The question is can they bring the acquisition price down low enough per unit to compete with used E190s???? There is talk of maybe building a CS500 (once the CS100 and CS300 are established) to compete with the standard 738/A320 types in the 150-seat category in the future. Time will tell............

 

[johnsonrod]

SWISS is already preparing for delivery of the first CS100 aircraft. The CS300 should follow in 6 months (mid-to-latter 2016) later.

Here's a good update regarding initial SWISS pilot training to develop the eventual training manuals:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rItaS0eh3gI#t=140

Would love to see the CS300 eventually at a legacy!

 

[SIG600]

Pretty looking airplane with impressive performance numbers:

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/photo/574012/c-ffdk-bombardier-bombardier-cs300/

Would love to see some flying for the legacies by legacy pilots. This thing is far more efficient than any old E190 or E195... The question is can they bring the acquisition price down low enough per unit to compete with used E190s???? There is talk of maybe building a CS500 (once the CS100 and CS300 are established) to compete with the standard 738/A320 types in the 150-seat category in the future. Time will tell............

Couldn't get any uglier than a CRJ.

 

[johnsonrod]

Couldn't get any uglier than a CRJ.

It certainly looks better than almost anything out there other than the 787 IMHO:

http://www.airteamimages.com/bombardier-cs100_C-GWXZ_swiss-international-air-lines_223659_large.html

But looks don't pay the bills.................. It needs to be flown by a Legacy carrier and we know Republic has 40 orders for the bigger CS300... Who in the US could buy them? UAL? Delta? Evidently huge fuel savings compared to A319/20s and 737-700s.

 

[Dornier 335]

Couldn't get any uglier than a CRJ.

That's reserved for the MRJ!

Any ideas where TSA is gonna put them? UAL?

 

[FLYLOW22]

Their gamble on airliner flying has significantly hampered their ability to serve the GA side of the house too.

It doesn't matter if you're a major customer with $7 billion of aircraft in order... BMBRD is faltering and missing delivery targets.