121 to 135???

[BigDave]

Has any regional pilots made the move from 121 to 135? I am looking at a possible position about 10min away from my house, twice the pay but on call 24/7. Most of the trips are day trips and you fly about 18 to 15 days a month. The 135 company has been around for 15 years and is well respected. Or I can stay at my regional where I have a three hour commute and have a very flexible schedule. I enjoy the 121 company I work for quit a bit, however I am concerned about that the future of our company. Anybody that can share his or her experiences doing something similar, please pass on.

Thanks

 

[pilotyip]

What do you want to be when you get done looking for the right job?

 

[grandma]

I just did... So far, so good.. The pay is the best part. Just make sure you're typed in something first, cuz non-typed pilots at 135 are a dime a dozen. And they can kick you to the curb in a heartbeat if they want to. I don't miss 121 at all. I was scared to leave the security of the airlines. But now I'm glad I don't have to deal with the craziness of downsizing, furloughs, paycuts, weird lifesucking management types, etc.

 

[Edward Summer]

I made the switch 3 months ago from a 121FO to 135 Capt and have not looked back yet. I had an increase in pay, 12 minute drive to work, no security bs to go through, and have not had one overnight yet! Been going to different places, a lot of variety, and this job has put the fun back into flying. So far only miss the airline equipment but that has been all.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Ed.

 

[ultrarunner]

I second what grandma said. If you're gonna bolt from the airline and go with a charter outfit, make sure you are captain qualified on the jet(s) you will fly.

If for some reason it doesn't work out, you sure don't want to be just another 'former airline guy' on the street.

Working for a reputable 135 company could be good or bad. I would certainly take the time to pick the brains of the pilots that currently work there. They'll give you good intel on the day to day workings.

Good luck

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Maintenance and safety record would be forst and foremost on my mind. 135 operators don't receive the same amount of scrutiny as 121 passenger airlines. I don't know what company you are talking about so this post in no way is meant to imply they are unsafe or have poor maintenance practices. Those are just issues that would concern me. I left a 135 outfit out of safety concerns.

 

[shelton]

Be careful with the 24 hour call out thing. You must have 10(I think it is 10 hours of rest 135, but I am too lazy to look it up) PRECEDING a flight and on call is not considered rest by the FAA. I did 135 air ambulance before moving to 121 so it was not exactly corporate. Anyway, just a heads up.

 

[FN FAL]

Has any regional pilots made the move from 121 to 135? I am looking at a possible position about 10min away from my house, twice the pay but on call 24/7. Most of the trips are day trips and you fly about 18 to 15 days a month. The 135 company has been around for 15 years and is well respected. Or I can stay at my regional where I have a three hour commute and have a very flexible schedule. I enjoy the 121 company I work for quit a bit, however I am concerned about that the future of our company. Anybody that can share his or her experiences doing something similar, please pass on.

Thanks

Achievement!





.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Be careful with the 24 hour call out thing. You must have 10(I think it is 10 hours of rest 135, but I am too lazy to look it up) PRECEDING a flight and on call is not considered rest by the FAA. I did 135 air ambulance before moving to 121 so it was not exactly corporate. Anyway, just a heads up.

135 regs are getting close to being changed. No more '10 hour lookback' crap.

 

[4fanman]

BigDave...

I gave up 4+ years of seniority at Mesaba for a 135 outfit. It's not the greatest place in the world to work but the mx is excellent and I broke even on the pay. The schedule has been the hardest (no hard days off) but overall it's been enjoyable. As others have said, no TSA bs, FBO's are better than terminals, and the quality of hotels that I stay in is much higher. No more nights at the SleepInn in FNT!!!

It's definitely time to move on but I got the turbine pic that I needed, an ATP certificate, met my wife, and had some fun as well. Not a bad run in my book.

The 24/7 callout will drag after a while, so if you can, work out some hard days off. Even with no hard days off with me I would still occasionally get a stretch of 5,6, and sometimes 7 days off. I just couldn't plan to do anything.

Hope this helps

 

[Machdog1]

I made the move and for me so far 135 is much better. Yes the lack of schedule days off suck, and being on call 24 hours a day sucks. But I get 4 hard days off a month and 4 soft(floating days) off a month. I am home most of the time and work an average of 15 days a month. Building PIC time too, which is important. Hope that helps!!

P.S.
Be careful each 135 outfit is different!!!!

 

[Flybet3]

I gave up 4+ years of seniority at Mesaba for a 135 outfit. It's not the greatest place in the world to work but the mx is excellent and I broke even on the pay. The schedule has been the hardest (no hard days off) but overall it's been enjoyable. As others have said, no TSA bs, FBO's are better than terminals, and the quality of hotels that I stay in is much higher. No more nights at the SleepInn in FNT!!!

It's definitely time to move on but I got the turbine pic that I needed, an ATP certificate, met my wife, and had some fun as well. Not a bad run in my book.

The 24/7 callout will drag after a while, so if you can, work out some hard days off. Even with no hard days off with me I would still occasionally get a stretch of 5,6, and sometimes 7 days off. I just couldn't plan to do anything.

Hope this helps

Pretty much like me...I'll back up what 4fanman said. I left the regionals for 135. I'm currently doing the 91 with "some" 135. It's actually been more 135 than anything. I didnt fly for 7 days recently, but I wasn't OFF for 7 days. Basically stayed home and walked around with the cell phone even to the crapper. The pay is great, benefits are good, MX is excellent but the lack of schedule and hard days off will catch up at some point. Especially if you and the wife start making plans to go back to school and stuff like that. If you can find yourself a 135 gig that gives decent pay, good MX, bennies and atleast 4 hard days off.....135 work is not all that bad. But if you land a job where the owner bi+ches when you request 2 sundays off in a row and your CP or managing captain doesnt back you up, then you might as well keep you resume up to date.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

It's just like the airlines. Each organization is different, some good, some bad. Mesa is a lot different that Emirates.

At my airline (-121 supplemental, but I fly a Falcon 20 using -135 rules), we've had a number of guys move from regionals to us. We recently had 1 guy go from us to AWAC, so, if numbers count, we're at about 10-1 leaving regionals to come here.

We are on call 24/7 when we're on days on. ALL of our days off are hard, which is nice. The only way you don't get your days off is if you want to work (and they need U).

Cliff
ABY

PS-The -135/-125 rules have been re-written, but God only knows when the rule changes actually kick in.

 

[da90drivr]

What are you guys considering good / great pay?
As someone already posted make sure the job includes the rating!
24/7 on call sucks no matter how you try to spin it. If you are with a regional and live in domicile or hold a commutable schedule you might want to compare hard days off.
Will you have to spend time in the office on nonflying days?
What type of aircraft?
Just a few thoughts.

 

[BigDave]

Cliff
ABY

PS-The -135/-125 rules have been re-written, but God only knows when the rule changes actually kick in.

Thanks for the insight from all. As for the new 135/125 rules, what will the duty regs going to be? Will they be closer to 121 regs with required days off? I did a search but could not find the info.

Thanks
BigDave

 

[BigDave]

Opps found the new 135 regs never mind......

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

In a nutshell: Closer to -121. Probably duty breaks, with 4 hrs being the min. No -91 tail end ferrys, no being on call 24/7, a fixed max duty day, etc.

 

[n5374f]

I am leaving 121 for 135

Why should I go to a place that I can't comute from and be on reserve when I can be at home every night for twice the pay and the same benefits. I trade 10 days off per month which of course only equal 6 days off with the commute for 6 hard days off at my home town. Pay goes from 30k to 70K plus tips. Medical Insurance better, the way I see it all I lose is the jumpseat
PS: Going from FO in B727 to Captain in a Lear 55

 

[CapnVegetto]

For what it's worth, I went from 121 RJ FO, (which I think is the WORST job in aviation), to 135 CE-500 captain, and there is no comparison. Nicer hotels, less work, better pay, and SOOOO much less bull$hit. I just went through a spell where I didn't work for about 2 weeks. Sandwiched in there was 6 hard days off in a row, but sometimes you just get lucky and hit it right. I flew yesterday, nothing this weekend, the I'm flying Monday-Wednesday next week. Home every night but 1 so far this month.

There is no comparison. Especially when the new rule changes hit. Of course, Super Bowl Sunday is my last day in 135!! Yahooo!!

 

[h25b]

For what it's worth, I went from 121 RJ FO, (which I think is the WORST job in aviation), to 135 CE-500 captain, and there is no comparison. Nicer hotels, less work, better pay, and SOOOO much less bull$hit. I just went through a spell where I didn't work for about 2 weeks. Sandwiched in there was 6 hard days off in a row, but sometimes you just get lucky and hit it right. I flew yesterday, nothing this weekend, the I'm flying Monday-Wednesday next week. Home every night but 1 so far this month.

There is no comparison. Especially when the new rule changes hit. Of course, Super Bowl Sunday is my last day in 135!! Yahooo!!

It all depends. Some people will always complain no matter where they came from, what they are getting paid, or whatever time they have off. I do the on call 24/7 essentially but the wife and I are home bodies and she doesn't work so we are able to just enjoy the time that we happen to have together. Actually, we don't do 24/7 because I can refuse the middle of the night stuff. We average about 16 days of not flying a month. Yes, I was on call but I am paid well above industry average for equipment, have excellent healthcare, outstanding retirement, and if I really need a day off I can get it.

By the way, someone give me a link to the new rule changes...

 

[ultrarunner]

PS-The -135/-125 rules have been re-written, but God only knows when the rule changes actually kick in.

I wasn't aware of a re-write. There is not even a NPRM out that know of.

Maybe I missed it at the FAA's site.

 

[h25b]

What are these new rules... ???

Someone give me some specifics...

 

[rway36]

On Call

Been on call 24/7 for the last 2+ years. It really does start to take its toll on you. Seems like a leash to your neck at times. Not great for the family life.
The pay is good, however I fly 1000 hrs a year/ 60+ overnights a year.
I would recommend a place if you can find it, and they are out there, that gives hard days off and on call only a portion of the 24hr period.
Just my 2 cents

 

[BigDave]

For those former 121 FOs that made the move to 135, did anybody get to go directly to CA, or do most 135 companies put you right seat for awhile to see how you do. I have 3100tt, 1800 SIC turbine, 1000 jet SIC. I appricate all the insight, I am getting motivated to leave the regionals behind and come home.

 

[FCPhotography]

This thread is great. Might have a left seat opportunity. Please keep it coming?

$300 a day with 4 hard days off a month (every other weekend). What to do?

 

[Flybet3]

Been on call 24/7 for the last 2+ years. It really does start to take its toll on you. Seems like a leash to your neck at times. Not great for the family life.
The pay is good, however I fly 1000 hrs a year/ 60+ overnights a year.
I would recommend a place if you can find it, and they are out there, that gives hard days off and on call only a portion of the 24hr period.
Just my 2 cents

DAMMMMNNNN!!!!! 1000 hrs?????! I must say 135 is usually the best way to upgrade and build some Turbine PIC

 

[Flybet3]

Also I cant complaine about my pay, I have really good pay and bennies are good. Nice salary will really help you pay those student loans alot faster too.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

The committee to rewrite the rules and reccomend the changes was formed 2.5 yrs. ago. They were supposed to finish up in Jun/Jul 2005. They advertised public comments right away, and then closed them. They didn't get too many comments, so they opened them again about 2 years ago.

The latest I found out about the situation was an article in May, 2005, which I summarized in the first link. I've heard nothing since, and searching the faa.gov site has yielded nothing.

Here is what I found just now:

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=54040&highlight=changes+part+135

http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?t=56382&highlight=changes+part+125

FAA KICKS OFF WORK ON REWRITE FOR FAR PART 125/135
The FAA held its first three-day meeting of the Part 125/135 Aviation Rulemaking Committee (ARC) last week. FAA tasked the ARC with determining the future of Part 125 and with updating Part 135 to reflect changes in the marketplace, technology and international standards. While the ARC is far from recommending any changes to the existing regulatory structure, many ARC members generally agree with conceptual changes proposed during the meeting. The ARC expects to meet again in August. For more information, contact NBAA's Doug Carr at [email protected]
http://web.nbaa.org/public/news/update/2003/update03-24.php

http://www.ainonline.com/issues/08_04/08_04_part135rulep42.html

http://www.ainonline.com/issues/10_02/10-02_bigbizjetspg62.html

http://www.landings.com/_landings/news/news_2_6_03_1.html

That was about all I could come up with on short notice. I see you already found the current thread re: this subject at the NBAA convention.

Have a Nice Day!

Cliff
ABY

 

[Ty Webb]

135 regs are getting close to being changed. No more '10 hour lookback' crap.

What do you mean "lookback crap"? Those regs are there to make sure you get your rest and time off . . . You sound like you would rather operate without 'em, WTFO?