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121 SIC mins up to 1200TT

k_EAT=ho_ME

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Now that I have your undivided attention.:D A little mental masturbation for you.

What would happen to the feeder/regional industry if the feds decided that, hey, maybe we oughta make 121 operators put someone in the right seat with at least 135 PIC mins, i.e. 1200TT, etc?

Anyone feelin' frisky?
 

bizicmo

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it just means people would instruct 6 months to a year more.
 

UnstableAviator

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The new hires will be even better at steep turns, slow flight, and stalls.
 

DC8 Flyer

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k_EAT=ho_ME said:
Now that I have your undivided attention.:D A little mental masturbation for you.

What would happen to the feeder/regional industry if the feds decided that, hey, maybe we oughta make 121 operators put someone in the right seat with at least 135 PIC mins, i.e. 1200TT, etc?

Anyone feelin' frisky?

I think, and its only an opinion, that if the FEDS (I say again the FEDS) start requiring a total time to be SIC, then SIC pay needs to be brought up to reflect that. Before someone goes off the long end of a short pier, think about it for a moment. Currently the PIC is the final authority, buck stops here, cliche cliche cliche. While I agree there has to be some finality as to who is in charge both people up front are putting just as much on the line while flying the airplane and if the FEDS start requiring X number of hours to be a SIC then I think the concept of Captain in training is gone and the concept should be Co-Captain(s) ie both paid a similiar wage.

I realize that rationalle is a little flawed in that 1200 TT in no way constitutes Capt quals, just like 5000 TT in C152 doesnt qualify as Capt quals either. The point is, SIC is and should remain a position of "training" and learning to be a Captain, not as a position occupied by a Captain who simpley gets paid less because of the side of the airplane he/she is sitting on.

Of course that doesnt mean an SIC shouldnt be competent and a sound pilot but as soon as the FEDS start demanding that I or anyone else aquire X amount time to be an SIC then pay needs to reflect that. As it is now anyone with 3lbs of grey matter 3 feet above there a$$ can be taught to be a competent and able pilot within 600 -1000 hours. Will that person have all the experience and tools necessary to comabt every situation he/she might encounter, of course not, thats why there are two up front, its called synergy.

Total time comes down to quality not quantity, albeit there is something to be said for time in enviroment, but as long as you keep learning...

It is up to each airlines training department to start training for line flying and not for triple electrical failures followed by catastrophic engine failures. Emergency training is important but so is the every day operation, its a fine line and to be honest Im not sure how to structure it.
 

k_EAT=ho_ME

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bizicmo said:
it just means people would instruct 6 months to a year more.
Well, yeah, to a pilot without the mins it just means that. But the question is, would it have an impact on this part of the industry?
 

wheelsup

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It would stop Gulfstream and Mesa from hiring 'internal' pilots. They'd simply hire off the street more.

That's about it.

Oh, and it would put an end to "bridge programs" such as those with Eagle, ASA, PDT, etc. Then every flight school would be on a level playing field.

~wheelsup
 

milehigh6080

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I doubt the airlines would support such a reg. It's much easier to get a low time, unqualified guy to sign a crappy contract than it is to get it passed by a qualfied pilot. If I'm in airline management, I want as many underqualified "grateful" employees as I can get.

Higher mins would probably mean higher pay eventually once it all sorted itself out, so I'd assume that you'd see less people getting hired directly out of flight instructor positions. It would probably return to the way it has been in the past where guys are coming out of other experience building positions and actually joining the airline as valuable crew members.

Sounds great to me as a pilot and as an occasional passenger, but I think the airline managers themselves would lobby against that reg even harder than the sub 1200 hour pilots. A sub 1200 pilot probably thinks that's just going to mean another 600 hours of instructing, I think management would know better.
 

dueguard1

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Jus means the Gulfstream PFT'ers, (Plundering our Fathers Tab) would take just a liiiitle bit more time to pad their logbooks and take the job any ol' ways.
 

DX Rick

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wheelsup said:
It would stop Gulfstream and Mesa from hiring 'internal' pilots. They'd simply hire off the street more.
That's about it.
Because Mesa is the only regional that hires internal pilots with low times? Get a clue.
 

k_EAT=ho_ME

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milehigh6080 said:
Higher mins would probably mean higher pay eventually once it all sorted itself out...

Anyone care to speculate on what percentage of 121 FO new hires in the past 12 months would not have met the 135.243 mins (1200 TT, 500 XC, 100 Night, 75 Instrument)? I don't even really have a guess.
 

Flechas

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milehigh6080 said:
I doubt the airlines would support such a reg. It's much easier to get a low time, unqualified guy to sign a crappy contract than it is to get it passed by a qualfied pilot. If I'm in airline management, I want as many underqualified "grateful" employees as I can get.
I don't agree with this, in most companies (At least ALPA), probationary pilots can't vote on the contract, so it really doesn't make a difference. IMHO By the time pilots are off probation, they are already bitter like the rest, regardless of how many hours they had when hired.

I do agree with what you say about the pay though.
 

Beechman

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DC8 Flyer said:
The point is, SIC is and should remain a position of "training" and learning to be a Captain, not as a position occupied by a Captain who simpley gets paid less because of the side of the airplane he/she is sitting on.
But for me I am a displaced captain who is basically sitting right seat getting paid FO rate because I'm in that right seat. Granted, every flight adds to the bag of experience, but my company has many captain qualified FOs who now sit around and think to ourselves "why is this guy doing that?"
 

Flyingdutchman

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Will the pay go up?

Nah I didn't think so. They (airlines) get what they pay for!
 

kevin_p

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I think the main effect would be that CFI pay would go even lower (maybe even to the point of some guys working for free) since there would be so many flight instructors out there trying to get to 1200.
 

DC8 Flyer

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Flyingdutchman said:
Will the pay go up?

Nah I didn't think so. They (airlines) get what they pay for!
Yeah, look at the captain pay at most regionals!
 

CapnVegetto

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I love it simply for the fact that it would eliminate all buy-a-job programs, and actually force the majority to put down the checkbook and actually WORK for what they wanted. It would also really hurt the pilot factories, also, which would be nothing but good for the industry.
 

$$$4nothin

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# of >1200tt pilots

My regional class date was in april, and of the 30 of us in it only 1 of the guys had less than 1200TT, and he was a previous company intern with about 1000tt. Most of us were prior 121 or 135 guys. Even the 6 who were flight instructors had over 1200tt.
 
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