12 hr drinking rules and FAA action

[pilotyip]

The "mooning pilots" made it onto the first few minutes of Inside Edition the other day and at the end of the report they mentioned that the two might have been drinking inside of TSA's 12 hour rule. My question is if they were found to be drinking within 12 hours, but outside of 8 hours can the FAA enforce any kind of certificate action? Obviously if they were drinking within 8 hours then they would have violated the FARs and certificate action would most likely follow. If someone is found violating a policy in their companies GOM can certificate action follow?

it is a class B violation, it is not a violation the FAR's but it is a violation of a written FAA apporved procedure. The company will have to show it is taking action to correct this, but there will be no fine or violation. Just a letter of correction. Based upon my experience, not drinking, with a mechanic doing an engine run-up without completing company training.

 

[submachXJ]

Correct. As far as the FAA is concerned, there is no way they could prove the pilots were going to go to work the next day...the FAA would lose the case on appeal, so why bother?

The company is in the same boat...they can't punish the pilots for violating the 12 hour rule, cuz they did not go to work.

They can punish them for a schedule deviation which is probably not a firing offense for non-probation pilots. If they try to fire them for a 12 hour violation, the pilots will just claim they lost track of time and would have called in unfit when they realized their "mistake".

All manuals are written different but unless you have changed or eliminated your show time you can still be tagged for violating your companies 8-12hr alcohol policy. Within a 12 hour period prior to an assigned duty period. No room for just calling in sick before you get to the airport. And you can and will be tagged for an opp's if it's inside 12. A few people have diappeared for this. This is blunt but this is what has happened in the past.

 

[tomgoodman]

The other certificate

If the FAA does anything, it could be in connection with the medical certificate rather than the airman certificate. It would depend a lot on whether any reportable convictions result and whether a pilot has any relevant prior history in his file.

 

[rickair7777]

All manuals are written different but unless you have changed or eliminated your show time you can still be tagged for violating your companies 8-12hr alcohol policy. Within a 12 hour period prior to an assigned duty period. No room for just calling in sick before you get to the airport. And you can and will be tagged for an opp's if it's inside 12. A few people have diappeared for this. This is blunt but this is what has happened in the past.

They can fire you for anything, but will it hold up in court?

Just because you were scheduled to report at a certain time does not mean you were going to do so. If it's an outstation, of course we all know they were going to work in the morning, but proving it by preponderance of evidence is hard.

I suppose it could depend on how it was written...there's a difference between just drinking within the window vs. actually reporting for work after drinking within the window.

For the FAA, they have to prove that you definately intended to operate the airplane...I think you would actually have to baord the airplane. Walking towards the car with keys in your hand is not enough...maybe you were getting something out of trunk?

 

[go!ng for broke]

How do you know if you are to drunk to fly??

YOu don't take a drink to the plane with you.

 

[submachXJ]

Yep just talking about company policy. The FAA you are correct has more ways around it. And depending how your company writes its policies they are a little more difficult. I imagine all say something to the affect no alcohol XX hours before show so unless you called in sick or the time is changed a person could (and has) gotten dismissed for this. It could go to court but your only going to be told to hit the bricks if there was a bonefide case with concrete evidence.

 

[ReverseSensing]

I think many posters misunderstand how little of a company's FOM is actually an "approved" document. A few sections (like deicing) are and obviously the ops specs are, but very little else.

I asked our POI how I know which sections he reviews and signs off on and which ones he doesn't. He said there was no way to know without asking him or the DO. Several months later, the FOM list of effective pages started showing which pages and sections were actually approved by the FAA.

If the FAA can't violate you for not wearing your hat when your company requires it, it's doubtful they can violate you for not complying with a company 12-hour rule.

Anything that falls under careless and reckless or a specific FAR obviously is a different matter.