12 Hour Duty Day for TRAIN CONDUCTORS?!

[Skyliner]

Also keep in mind that for railroad crews, their 12-hour duty limit is not per calendar day, and most major railroads operate 24 hours a day. Granted that is also true for the airlines, however most airline schedules work out that the duty limit approximates that of a 24-hour calendar day.

For example, a railroad crew on the Extra Board (i.e. "reserve") might have a work week like this:

Monday- come on duty at 8AM, released to rest at 6PM.
Tuesday- called at 1AM for a 3AM on duty, released at 12PM. Called again at 6PM for an 8PM on duty (after 8 hours rest).
Wednesday- Released at 8AM to ten hours rest. On duty again at 6PM.
Thursday- Released at 5AM. Called at 1PM for a 3PM on duty.
Friday- released at 2AM to eight hours rest, back on duty at 10AM... etc

So you can see that train crews do have duty and rest regulations, but they often go right back to work after their eight-hour or ten-hour (after on duty 12 hours or more) rest periods are over. This can create some really inconsistant report and rest times that don't match up with calendar days at all. In the example above, you can see how someone actually works six duty periods in only five days.

Until the last ten years or so, that sort of scheduling at Class 1 railroads was very common. Recently, some companies have gone to more calendar-day based scheduling, and some also have defined days off now. In the past, many railroad workers never had any assigned days off-- you simply called in sick when you didn't want to work.

Also, train crews are required to stop their trains when they hit their 12-hour duty limit, wherever they happen to be. Usually companies try to ensure this occurs at crew change points or in yards, but it may not always work out like that. Even though their duty limit is up, the crew is still required to stay with the train and remain "alert" until relieved. And if you happened to stop forty miles from the nearest town, you may be waiting a while for the van to find you. This waiting time is not considered duty time or rest time and is known as "limbo time" in the industry. Sometimes a 12 hour duty day might be followed by four, six, or even eight (!) hours of limbo time.

These are among the reasons why 2nd year pay as a railroad crewmember can exceed $70,000 a year.

 

[landlover]

Also keep in mind that for railroad crews, their 12-hour duty limit is not per calendar day, and most major railroads operate 24 hours a day. Granted that is also true for the airlines, however most airline schedules work out that the duty limit approximates that of a 24-hour calendar day.

For example, a railroad crew on the Extra Board (i.e. "reserve") might have a work week like this:

Monday- come on duty at 8AM, released to rest at 6PM.
Tuesday- called at 1AM for a 3AM on duty, released at 12PM. Called again at 6PM for an 8PM on duty (after 8 hours rest).
Wednesday- Released at 8AM to ten hours rest. On duty again at 6PM.
Thursday- Released at 5AM. Called at 1PM for a 3PM on duty.
Friday- released at 2AM to eight hours rest, back on duty at 10AM... etc

So you can see that train crews do have duty and rest regulations, but they often go right back to work after their eight-hour or ten-hour (after on duty 12 hours or more) rest periods are over. This can create some really inconsistant report and rest times that don't match up with calendar days at all. In the example above, you can see how someone actually works six duty periods in only five days.

Until the last ten years or so, that sort of scheduling at Class 1 railroads was very common. Recently, some companies have gone to more calendar-day based scheduling, and some also have defined days off now. In the past, many railroad workers never had any assigned days off-- you simply called in sick when you didn't want to work.

Also, train crews are required to stop their trains when they hit their 12-hour duty limit, wherever they happen to be. Usually companies try to ensure this occurs at crew change points or in yards, but it may not always work out like that. Even though their duty limit is up, the crew is still required to stay with the train and remain "alert" until relieved. And if you happened to stop forty miles from the nearest town, you may be waiting a while for the van to find you. This waiting time is not considered duty time or rest time and is known as "limbo time" in the industry. Sometimes a 12 hour duty day might be followed by four, six, or even eight (!) hours of limbo time.

These are among the reasons why 2nd year pay as a railroad crewmember can exceed $70,000 a year.

sounds pretty close to a 135

 

[Flyer1015]

V1 cuts happen, but that's not what he said

Its important. Unlike airline pilots, train conductors need to be fully awake when they loose an engine at V1 with windshear in the area.

Why you always gotta be a numbnuts bro?

So? You could lose an engine at V1 during windshear conditions. Just because windshear is around doesn't mean you are guaranteed to never lose an engine.

 

[T206driver]

Hey Folks;

Skyliner got it right. The work/rest scheduling can be a dog gone nightmare! I used to be a conductor. Those that live, "on the company property", you can make really big $$$. Those guys are walking zombies and create a safety hazard for all! You can never plan on a day off either. I you mark-off on a regular basis the company boss' tend to get really pissed and then jeopardize your job and other nasty things. I used to work as a conductor for the Southern Pacific. It was more rugged than flying 135! Lack of sleep could have been a factor but was the signal system working properly?????? Nobody hear has ever thought of that. They do happen and if you are not attentive, major distruction is in your future. You happily go through a green signal and then you see an oncoming train. THAT IS VERY BAD! Let's inspect the track side signal boxes and the dispatchers computer systems before we pass judgement.

 

[Andy Neill]

Lack of sleep could have been a factor but was the signal system working properly?????? Nobody hear has ever thought of that. ..... Let's inspect the track side signal boxes and the dispatchers computer systems before we pass judgement.

As a matter of fact, that was checked. Here is an excerpt from a 4 Oct article:

In the days after the crash, investigators conducted three tests to check whether the signals were functioning properly.

The first was an electronic test of several signals before and after the Chatsworth station. The second was a "sight distance" survey that, among other things, checked whether Sanchez would have had a clear view of the signals. Investigators also examined computer data to see if the signals were working correctly on the day of the crash.

NTSB board member Kitty Higgins has said all the signals -- including two south of the Chatsworth station and one north of the station near the track switch mechanism -- were visible and working. Not only was the final signal red, Higgins said, but the light just before the station was solid yellow. "That indicates that the third signal is red, that you stop," she said.

"We can say with confidence that the signal system was working," Higgins said at a news conference after the tests.

 

[TWA]

The railroads are hiring!

 

[pipejockey]

Be careful what you wish for....A 12 hour duty day would most likely result in more days at work and more nights away from home.....

No it wouldn't, if you get rid of the nonsensical 8 hour flight time limit and just create a simple 12 hours on duty limitation. It's asinine that guys doing transcons or overseas to Europe do 1 leg a day, maybe 8 to 10 hours duty and they are done. While Domestic and narrowbody guys are up and down all day, especially the regional guys, some who don't even have auto pilots flying some broken down POS turboprop!

This profession is a**backwards. The guys who do the most work and spend the most time on the job, 10 times a day in the airport and terminal environments at 5 legs a day, get the shaft, while these worthless widebody guys do bupkus!!

 

[pipejockey]

As a matter of fact, that was checked. Here is an excerpt from a 4 Oct article:

NTSB board member Kitty Higgins has said all the signals -- including two south of the Chatsworth station and one north of the station near the track switch mechanism -- were visible and working.

And are you actually going to take a chicks word for it?? That would be foolhardy.

 

[DoinTime]

No it wouldn't, if you get rid of the nonsensical 8 hour flight time limit and just create a simple 12 hours on duty limitation. It's asinine that guys doing transcons or overseas to Europe do 1 leg a day, maybe 8 to 10 hours duty and they are done. While Domestic and narrowbody guys are up and down all day, especially the regional guys, some who don't even have auto pilots flying some broken down POS turboprop!

This profession is a**backwards. The guys who do the most work and spend the most time on the job, 10 times a day in the airport and terminal environments at 5 legs a day, get the shaft, while these worthless widebody guys do bupkus!!

Just how many hours a day you think you can fly in a 12 hour duty day while going "up and down all day," as you put it? 12-hour duty day restrictions will have a large impact on the scheduling of short-haul domestic operations and it won't be a good impact.

The FAA will likely make some changes to the standing rest/flight/duty time requirements over the next couple years (unless McCain gets elected and he kills it) that will recognize scientific data on human fatigue and rest requirements. Probably the biggest issue which people don't tend to talk about much is the proposed inclusion of personal commuting time on your duty day. Just wait until that sh*t hits the fan.

The days of allowable conflicts of interest are coming to an end.

 

[PCL_128]

if you get rid of the nonsensical 8 hour flight time limit

No thanks. Keep the 8-hour limit and just add a 12-hour duty day. Schedules will be just fine. Flying more than 8 hours in a day is not something that I want to experience.