1000 hr turbine mins

[Snoopy58]

If there is one thing that really impressed me with the entire experience at Southwest, it is that the company is very straightforward with applicants. No mind games, no hidden tests, no secret handshakes. If they say "X," they mean X. Not X+Y or X-Z, but "X." Here is what the Southwest.com website says as of today about required flight experience:

2500 hours total or 1500 hours TURBINE total. Additionally, a minimum of 1000 hours in Turbine aircraft as the **Pilot in command, as defined by FAR PART I is required. Recency of experience is considered. Southwest considers only Pilot time in fixed wing aircraft. This specifically excludes simulator, helicopter, WSO, RIO, FE, NAV, EWO etc. NO other time is counted.**

There is nowhere in there a requirement for multiengine time. A guy could fly the F-16 or instruct in the T-34 for 1000 hours & qualify. Same for a caravan.

As I posted above, the guy coming out of the caravan or the turbine crop duster will have some additional hurdles to clear to prove to the SWA decision board that he will be proficient in the IFR, crew-based, highly procedural world of airline flying. HOWEVER, in terms of meeting the mins, the requirement is for 1000 hours of (FAR part 1) PIC in a TURBINE powered aircraft. Not a "multiengine (or military) turbine powered aircraft."

Other airlines are a separate question, and I don't presume to address the way that they would view such time. Some airlines publish very low "minimum" requirements to submit, but in fact have a much higher threashold that must be met before an app will actually be considered for an interview. How such unstated requirements will process civil SEL turbine hours is anybody's guess. Southwest, however, does not play such games. If your app meets the mins, you WILL get an interview. How long before the invitation comes, given today's environment, is hard to say.

All the best to poolies (past, present, and future) & all flightinfo-ers for 2003!

Snoopy

 

[WrightAvia]

I hated to get all frosty but...

I'm all better now. One pilot being placed at job, after interviewing for a job and getting it, doesn't make the pilot a professional career counselor. I Congratulate the guy I pounced on for obtaining a 121 pilot position, but I don't think that position qualifies him to be the all knowing, career kiosk of information.

First of all, yea...twin turbine time is desirable on a resume. So is Jet PIC. Lots of things look good on a resume. I had an offer by a pilot to hand walk my resume into a well known national carrier. This pilot knows my qualifications and knows I have a 1000 pic turbine in singles. This was never going to be an issue here, with this application. I think if you can get an inside reference, some recognition, you can get in. This is a rediculous argument anyway. All you need is a commercial, multi-engine land with instrument priviledges, according to the FEDs to do the job of SIC anyway (plus the airline training).

A few years ago, a friend of mine got an interview, screening and sim eval at NORTHWEST AIRLINES. NWA, not XJ! The friend had a high school diploma, 1500 total time, 500 multi, NO 135 or 121 time, just a scant of turbine time riding shot gun in a king air 90....and there he was, going through the deal at Northwest. He got his resume in with persistance and by working evenings mopping up DC-9's as plane cleaner/ramp agent for NWA. I don't even think he had an ATP. You don't have to believe this story...I know it's true and that's all that matters.

happy new year and good luck guys.

 

[Ty Webb]

Re: I hated to get all frosty but...

I'm all better now. One pilot being placed at job, after interviewing for a job and getting it, doesn't make the pilot a professional career counselor. I Congratulate the guy I pounced on for obtaining a 121 pilot position, but I don't think that position qualifies him to be the all knowing, career kiosk of information.
This was never going to be an issue here, with this application. I think if you can get an inside reference, some recognition, you can get in. This is a rediculous argument anyway. All you need is a commercial, multi-engine land with instrument priviledges, according to the FEDs to do the job of SIC anyway (plus the airline training).

Hey, good luck to you, but you are clearly suffering from some wishful thinking. There are nationals and there are NATIONALS. If you think that a CMEL is going to get you somewhere other than a regional in this job market, hey, more power to you, but I think you'll be sadly mistaken.

My career was too important to me to just rely on the most optimistic scenario and a handful of magic beans.

Most people doing the interviewing will see 5000 TT and only a CMEL with no type ratings or crew experience as a big, red flag. Your attitude says the rest. Good luck . . . . I think you're gonna need it.

 

[bobbysamd]

Interview quals

I think if you can get an inside reference, some recognition, you can get in . . . .. All you need is a commercial, multi-engine land with instrument priviledges, according to the FEDs to do the job of SIC anyway . . . .

A few years ago, a friend of mine got an interview, screening and sim eval at NORTHWEST AIRLINES. NWA, not XJ! The friend had a high school diploma, 1500 total time, 500 multi, NO 135 or 121 time, just a scant of turbine time riding shot gun in a king air 90....and there he was, going through the deal at Northwest. He got his resume in with persistance and by working evenings mopping up DC-9's as plane cleaner/ramp agent for NWA . . . .

It's not that I don't believe this story, but I'd like to see Vegas odds on a repeat performance. Even during the good hiring times of a few years ago. Along with this story, you always hear about the son of the friend of the neighbor of the Chief Pilot getting in with even lesser quals.

Face it, these are exceptions. You need to have quals that are competitive, and these days such quals will exceed the company mins by leaps and bounds. You also need LORs and someone walking in your materials to have even a ghost of a chance. Moreover, the majors disagree strongly with Uncle Sam's position that you can be SIC with them at 250 hours.

This story reminds me of an instructor I knew at Riddle. This fellow worked liked a dog and was building tons of time fast (he was busting a company rule requiring at least one day off in seven, he was running his students up on extra training, and there was informed speculation that he routinely busted the eight hours in 24 hours instruction rule). He believed that he could leapfrog the commuters and/or freight and go directly to an interview with the majors with only a good resume and cover letter. He did get one interview of which I'm aware, with Eagle. He bragged to us how he flew the sim perfectly. His answer to the suspected drunken captain question was that he'd let the captain taxi the airplane from the gate and try to convince the captain to turn back. He wasn't hired. He also used to brag that he soloed at five hours.

Don't delude yourself about getting in with low quals. Climb the ladder, get your ATP, build your experience, apply and hope for the best. If you have any questions about a company's requirements, just read them. If they say 1000 turbine PIC, I'd go by the plain meaning, although we all know that turbine multi PIC is better.

 

[jimbo]

I am currently in the pool for SWA. I was hired at the turbine PIC minimums. I had 1015 hrs of turbine PIC of which 341 hrs of that was a C-208. The rest was in a Metro III. I think that they just want to see some progression in the aircraft you fly. If you have all C-208 time it would be a different story.
At SWA, I know that the references you get are a BIG factor in the hiring process. I had great references and I know I would'nt be there if I did'nt. 95% of the time.......its the old adage......
"its who ya know". This and you better have a great attitude cause the word does get around this industry very quickly if you don't !!!!!
I believe this wholly.
Good Luck!!!

 

[av8instyle]

SE PIC

I'll throw my $0.02 in. I applied to every Major I was eligible for and the only PIC time I had was in the F-16. That was clearly noted on my applications. I ended up getting three interview offers and took the job at the first one. There wasn't a single application for a Major that restricted my PIC time because it was in an F-16. That would basically make an Eagle dude eligible and not me. Any Eagle dude will tell you that that would be silly.

I think at the time Fed Ex and Alaska did have something that said Multi engine turbine or single engine jet PIC. In other words it gave a viper clause. I don't think the others did.

 

[46Driver]

Does anybody know which airlines count helo time and which ones don't - and why those such as Southwest specifically exclude helo time? It is extremely frustrating that a single engine T-34C bubba can get hired with 1500 hours while 4300 hours of combined TH-57 PIC time and glass cockpit RJ F.O. time does not even meet mins.... Instrument training in the TH-57 (conducted at the same base as the T-34C's) includes VORs, Tacans, NDBs, GPS's, and ILS's (the T-34C does not have an ADF, an ILS, or a certified GPS). Sorry to rant - just a frustrated helo trash rotorhead.

 

[Bill Nelson]

I think they exclude helo time because they have met some helocopter pilots before and they do not want to share the cockpit with a rotorhead

 

[av8instyle]

wow

10,000 hrs. You must have flown the heck out of the Raptor in testing.
I'll bet you're the high time Mil pilot.