Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

1000 hr turbine mins

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web

bugchaser

Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2002
Posts
295
When an airline requires 1000 hr turbine PIC, is any turbine time included? I know multi turbine would be more valuable, but what is the value of a bunch of single engine turbine PIC. Will soon have more than the 1000 turbine but will mostly be single. How will that be looked at by airlines? Thanks
 
I've heard Southwest doesn't care what type A/C the turbine time is in. JetBlue has a weight restriction. It's on their website.
Good luck.
 
FYI..the 1000 hrs in aircraft over 20,000 that jetBlue requires doesn't have to be turbine or PIC. Although they do have a seperate requirement for 1000 hrs turbine, the weight restriction doesn't apply to that.
 
bug,
As far as I know, if they say turbine PIC, then single is as good as multi. If they wanted multi PIC, they'd ask for it. As far as jetBlue goes, I had about 500 PIC multi-turbine, and 700 PIC single-turbine, and it got me in, so they don't descriminate between multi and single in that respect (as far as min quals go). And the other guys are right, they want 1000 hours turbine PIC, which can be in any size airplane, then they want 1000 in airplanes greater than 20,000 lbs. (not necessarily PIC) (I'm actually not sure if the weight is 20k, it was 10k when I applied but they may have changed it)
 
I am not sure if a 24000lb helo would count toward the Jet Blue minimums.
j
 
Bugchaser asked

> Will soon have more than the 1000 turbine but will mostly be single. How will that be looked at by airlines?

Let me offer a couple of thoughts particularly as your time relates to the mins at SWA. First, 1000 hours in turbine cropdusters absolutely meets the 1000 turbine PIC requirement. If you meet the other requirements (2500 total time, ATP, 737 type, etc), you WILL be put on the list for an interview. (No guarantees how long the wait may be.)

That said, your app will look considerably different from the majority of apps that SWA gets. Most guys have either military, 121, or corporate backgrounds. Some have some cropdusting, but not many got their 1000 t-pic that way. The good news is that SWA does NOT use a cookie-cutter for making job offers. You do NOT need to "conform" to all the standard stereotype expectations (including navy suit, white shirt, red tie, plain-toe black lace-up dress shoes, black briefcase, blah blah blah) to get the nod!

The warning, though, is that you will have some things to "prove" to the interviewers / decision board that may go a bit beyond what a military/121/corporate guy has to show them. These 3 environments all operate mostly (or all) IFR, have considerable structure, generally lots of CRM experience (or leading a flight, for single seat military guys -- different but similar), and deal with a great deal of automation. You will do yourself the most favors by emphasizing how you function well in such an environment (doesn't need to be 1000 hours in that environment, but you want to convince them that you won't flail when you get out on the line in the jet).

Even if it isn't a lot of hours, being able to relate how you've done well with high performance aircraft in the IFR environment will reassure guys that you'll be able to pass IOE. CRM is CRM and doesn't need to be in a high performance aircraft, but you'll want to have several examples of working with another pilot in the cockpit to show that you can do that well. Being able to discuss the regulations & structure that you work within (working with a chief pilot to solve a problem, consulting a regs/policy manual for guidance, etc) will dispel the fear that you just "go out VFR & do whatever you feel like."

Please understand that I'm NOT suggesting that ag flying is in any way undisciplined, but the differences between the stick-n-rudder flying you do in VMC & low altitude with some fairly aggressive yanking and banking at times and the structured, highly procedural, crew-centered, FMC-intensive, "keep it smooth for the paying passengers" environment are significant.

If you are looking to apply to SWA and are planning on getting the type, you'll probably do yourself some favors by brushing up on IFR procedures & sharpening your instrument scan... The type rating school I went to could generally teach most guys who came to them to fly the sim well enough to pass the checkride, but some folks had a severely hard time with it; they tended to be mostly VFR pilots.

Several other places besides SWA have a sim ride as part of the interview; you might benefit from an hour or two with an instructor in such a sim getting used to "flying" in that enviroment. For guys who already fly one "heavy," I tend to think that buying time is "the exact same" sim you're going to interview in is a waste of $, but a simulator is a big video game & you do NOT get all the same cues flying it that you do flying an aircraft. Similar, overlapping skills, but if you've never flown a sim for a "heavy" aircraft before, you don't want to do it for the first time on an interview that matters to you!

All that said, I will respectfully disagree with the poster who said that you have to go to a regional first before your app will have any chance at a major like SWA or FedEx. While 121 time will certainly give you valuable experience in all the things I mentioned above, it is not the ONLY way to do it, and you may well have everything you need in your background to convince an interviewer that you can do well in training and IOE & become an asset to the company.

Two suggestions: if you're geographically close to one of the type rating schools, it might be a good thing to go chat with them about your background & what it takes for someone like you to be successful at SWA (or wherever your interest lies). I'll plug Higher Power (www.jetcrew.com) here -- great people who absolutely know their stuff. They see people with diverse backgrounds go through their programs & tend to have a good feel for who can do well & who will be severely challenged by the structure & IFR involved. Second, interview prep people like Rob Beeks ([email protected], iirc) also have seen enough people go through the process that he also can probably give you a good evaluation of how your experience & background would stack up.

Best of luck to you, and feel free to PM me if anything I said here is unclear or you'd like further clairification.

cheers,

Snoopy
 
For the most part, single-engine turbine time is counted the same as C172 time when it gets down to the application process.

Why do I say that?

Get a copy of any airline application. They all contain a flight-time breakdown sheet. Look at how the columns add up . . . usually, single-engine turbine time ends up being added right along with single engine piston time.

When a company says "turbine time" it doesn't really have much to do with the way that the engine makes its power; it is more of a convenient way to say:

"Time operating in the enroute and high-density terminal areas under IFR, in a high-performance, pressurized aircraft, flown in an crew environment, utilizing the discipline of CRM, and SOP'S, while adhering to standard profiles".

Or something to that extent.

Now, I am sure some people are thinking, "Well, what about a PC12 . . . or some other high-performance single-engine turbine aircraft?". All I can say is "look at the application".

If you do get a chance to interview, plead your case, but if you want an airline job, I would focus on getting the kind of experience that they are looking for, not trying to decide how to fit what you are doing into their "box".

Ag flying looks like a blast. I would also like to fly a Caravan from MIA to Nassau every day, but I wouldn't want to hang my hopes of an airline job in this competitive market on doing either.
 
Last edited:
Hi!

One of our pilots knows a ton of FedEx guys, and the 1000 PIC turbine is exactly that. This guy has a lot of caravan time, and his FedEx buddies said it counts as it IS 1000 PIC turbine.

One of the reasons the airlines did this, was to let F-16 and naval (and now AF) flight instructors in who fly a single turboprop.

If it doesn't count for a specific airline, I'm sure you will know it, as they will specify so much PIC Multi-airplane, or so many pounds MGTOW, etc.

Cliff
GRB
 
You may want to look into that a little more closely, Cliff. Fedex had a MTOW requirement in there . . . . don't know if they dropped it, or not.

Regardless, a quick look at most airline's Flight Time Break-Down sheet will show you exactly how they count single turbo-prop time, and for most of them, it's the same as a C210.
 
Thank goodness aviation has at least one

Guy with 4,000 total time, mostly as FO...as a freaking know it all.
 
Re: Thank goodness aviation has at least one

WrightAvia said:
Guy with 4,000 total time, mostly as FO...as a freaking know it all.

Don't know where the chip on your shoulder comes from, pal. How many airline apps have you filled out? How many interviews have you gone to . . how many airline job offers have you had?

That's what I thought.

I may only have 4000TT, but I became a 135 Jet PIC at 2500TT so I guess I was doing something right. . . .

Have a nice life.
 
Last edited:
Wright,

Man, what's eaten ya with Ty Webb's response? Last I checked it's still called Flight."INFO".com. Nothing like bitin' the hand that feeds.

Happy New One.
 
1000 turbine pic mins for southwest

A former student was the son of a Southwest Pilot. When I went to the pilot's 50th birthday party he told me that Southwest did want Multi-PIS, single was not counted towards the mins. No way to back this up, just heard it at dinner. Sorry for the bad news
 
1000 turbine pic mins for southwest

A former student was the son of a Southwest Pilot. When I went to the pilot's 50th birthday party he told me that Southwest did want Multi-PIC, single was not counted towards the mins. No way to back this up, just heard it at dinner. Sorry for the bad news
 
If there is one thing that really impressed me with the entire experience at Southwest, it is that the company is very straightforward with applicants. No mind games, no hidden tests, no secret handshakes. If they say "X," they mean X. Not X+Y or X-Z, but "X." Here is what the Southwest.com website says as of today about required flight experience:
2500 hours total or 1500 hours TURBINE total. Additionally, a minimum of 1000 hours in Turbine aircraft as the **Pilot in command, as defined by FAR PART I is required. Recency of experience is considered. Southwest considers only Pilot time in fixed wing aircraft. This specifically excludes simulator, helicopter, WSO, RIO, FE, NAV, EWO etc. NO other time is counted.**
There is nowhere in there a requirement for multiengine time. A guy could fly the F-16 or instruct in the T-34 for 1000 hours & qualify. Same for a caravan.

As I posted above, the guy coming out of the caravan or the turbine crop duster will have some additional hurdles to clear to prove to the SWA decision board that he will be proficient in the IFR, crew-based, highly procedural world of airline flying. HOWEVER, in terms of meeting the mins, the requirement is for 1000 hours of (FAR part 1) PIC in a TURBINE powered aircraft. Not a "multiengine (or military) turbine powered aircraft."

Other airlines are a separate question, and I don't presume to address the way that they would view such time. Some airlines publish very low "minimum" requirements to submit, but in fact have a much higher threashold that must be met before an app will actually be considered for an interview. How such unstated requirements will process civil SEL turbine hours is anybody's guess. Southwest, however, does not play such games. If your app meets the mins, you WILL get an interview. How long before the invitation comes, given today's environment, is hard to say.

All the best to poolies (past, present, and future) & all flightinfo-ers for 2003!

Snoopy
 
I hated to get all frosty but...

I'm all better now. One pilot being placed at job, after interviewing for a job and getting it, doesn't make the pilot a professional career counselor. I Congratulate the guy I pounced on for obtaining a 121 pilot position, but I don't think that position qualifies him to be the all knowing, career kiosk of information.

First of all, yea...twin turbine time is desirable on a resume. So is Jet PIC. Lots of things look good on a resume. I had an offer by a pilot to hand walk my resume into a well known national carrier. This pilot knows my qualifications and knows I have a 1000 pic turbine in singles. This was never going to be an issue here, with this application. I think if you can get an inside reference, some recognition, you can get in. This is a rediculous argument anyway. All you need is a commercial, multi-engine land with instrument priviledges, according to the FEDs to do the job of SIC anyway (plus the airline training).

A few years ago, a friend of mine got an interview, screening and sim eval at NORTHWEST AIRLINES. NWA, not XJ! The friend had a high school diploma, 1500 total time, 500 multi, NO 135 or 121 time, just a scant of turbine time riding shot gun in a king air 90....and there he was, going through the deal at Northwest. He got his resume in with persistance and by working evenings mopping up DC-9's as plane cleaner/ramp agent for NWA. I don't even think he had an ATP. You don't have to believe this story...I know it's true and that's all that matters.

happy new year and good luck guys.
 
Re: I hated to get all frosty but...

WrightAvia said:
I'm all better now. One pilot being placed at job, after interviewing for a job and getting it, doesn't make the pilot a professional career counselor. I Congratulate the guy I pounced on for obtaining a 121 pilot position, but I don't think that position qualifies him to be the all knowing, career kiosk of information.
This was never going to be an issue here, with this application. I think if you can get an inside reference, some recognition, you can get in. This is a rediculous argument anyway. All you need is a commercial, multi-engine land with instrument priviledges, according to the FEDs to do the job of SIC anyway (plus the airline training).





Hey, good luck to you, but you are clearly suffering from some wishful thinking. There are nationals and there are NATIONALS. If you think that a CMEL is going to get you somewhere other than a regional in this job market, hey, more power to you, but I think you'll be sadly mistaken.

My career was too important to me to just rely on the most optimistic scenario and a handful of magic beans.

Most people doing the interviewing will see 5000 TT and only a CMEL with no type ratings or crew experience as a big, red flag. Your attitude says the rest. Good luck . . . . I think you're gonna need it.
 
Last edited:
Interview quals

WrightAvia said:
I think if you can get an inside reference, some recognition, you can get in . . . .. All you need is a commercial, multi-engine land with instrument priviledges, according to the FEDs to do the job of SIC anyway . . . .

A few years ago, a friend of mine got an interview, screening and sim eval at NORTHWEST AIRLINES. NWA, not XJ! The friend had a high school diploma, 1500 total time, 500 multi, NO 135 or 121 time, just a scant of turbine time riding shot gun in a king air 90....and there he was, going through the deal at Northwest. He got his resume in with persistance and by working evenings mopping up DC-9's as plane cleaner/ramp agent for NWA . . . .
It's not that I don't believe this story, but I'd like to see Vegas odds on a repeat performance. Even during the good hiring times of a few years ago. Along with this story, you always hear about the son of the friend of the neighbor of the Chief Pilot getting in with even lesser quals.

Face it, these are exceptions. You need to have quals that are competitive, and these days such quals will exceed the company mins by leaps and bounds. You also need LORs and someone walking in your materials to have even a ghost of a chance. Moreover, the majors disagree strongly with Uncle Sam's position that you can be SIC with them at 250 hours.

This story reminds me of an instructor I knew at Riddle. This fellow worked liked a dog and was building tons of time fast (he was busting a company rule requiring at least one day off in seven, he was running his students up on extra training, and there was informed speculation that he routinely busted the eight hours in 24 hours instruction rule). He believed that he could leapfrog the commuters and/or freight and go directly to an interview with the majors with only a good resume and cover letter. He did get one interview of which I'm aware, with Eagle. He bragged to us how he flew the sim perfectly. His answer to the suspected drunken captain question was that he'd let the captain taxi the airplane from the gate and try to convince the captain to turn back. He wasn't hired. He also used to brag that he soloed at five hours.

Don't delude yourself about getting in with low quals. Climb the ladder, get your ATP, build your experience, apply and hope for the best. If you have any questions about a company's requirements, just read them. If they say 1000 turbine PIC, I'd go by the plain meaning, although we all know that turbine multi PIC is better.
 
Last edited:
I am currently in the pool for SWA. I was hired at the turbine PIC minimums. I had 1015 hrs of turbine PIC of which 341 hrs of that was a C-208. The rest was in a Metro III. I think that they just want to see some progression in the aircraft you fly. If you have all C-208 time it would be a different story.
At SWA, I know that the references you get are a BIG factor in the hiring process. I had great references and I know I would'nt be there if I did'nt. 95% of the time.......its the old adage......
"its who ya know". This and you better have a great attitude cause the word does get around this industry very quickly if you don't !!!!!
I believe this wholly.
Good Luck!!!
 
Last edited:

Latest resources

Back
Top