Biggest compaints from owners??

[smfav8r]

I was just curious what are the biggest complaints owners have about fractional ownership?

From owners and pilots I've talked too: scheduling seems to be a problem, not getting the same type of aircraft you purchased, lack of personal attention, different crews, etc.

Are there any other gripes from owners you hear on a regular basis?

The reason I ask is....I own a small 135 operation and I'm looking to add a couple of fractional ownership aircraft.

Any problems or suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[leardawg]

When I flew for a Frac a common thread seemed to be a lack of truth telling and straightforwardness from owner services. Apparently, being BSed and outright lied to was a fairly common occurence.

One example: We had an early morning trip originally scheduled for another airplane. Because of duty/rest requirements, we would not be able to make the original pickup time. When we arrived, the owner casually asked "So you guys had some weather delays getting out of XYZ I hear?", when in fact the weather was fine. Owner Services made up a bogus story rather than just tell the guy the real situation. When they find out about things like that (which they often do, because by and large they aren't stupid), it leaves a very bad taste in their mouths.

 

[gunfyter]

Sell Offs

 

[notaNJApilot]

Sell Offs

x 10

the owner pays to fly on NetJets aircraft, not someone else's.

 

[gutshotdraw]

1) Sell-offs

2) Owner Services, er, "creative representations"

3) Scheduling

4) Catering

5) Ground Transportation

 

[Dep676]

At Options I would say that they are lied to by owner services on a constant basis. That really makes them happy then we get to hear about it.

 

[Dilligaff]

I agree with gunfyter and notaNJApilot. Chartering another type of plane is the most common complaint that I hear. I was in LAS and we had two customers there and one of them had a Citation chartered for them. They were trying to fight over who was going to take the chartered plane because they both wanted to fly on the plane that they bought a share of.

Others include:

Catering (wrong meals, no meals, no condiments or flatware)

Overzealous sales department ("this plane can outperform the space shuttle and carry twice as much!") Be realistic with the performace capabilities of the airplane when presenting it to your owners, i.e. payload vs. range.

Communication Don't BS these people. They didn't become millionaires because they're idiots! They can see through it.

They expect everything to be taken care of for them if they request it. (ground transportation - limo or rental cars, catering, hotels, etc) If they ask for it, give it to them. That's what they pay you for.

While I'm at it, here's some complaints from pilots:

Schedules, or lack thereof

Getting up to date charts

Scheduling hotels and ground transportation in a timely manner

Arranging customs and providing the proper customs documentation

Communication

Our company is doing a great job of listening to and addressing these problems brought up by the crews. They are your eyes and ears of what's going on out there.

Good luck to you. I hope it works out.

Dilligaff

 

[smfav8r]

Thanks for the replies so far.

Sounds like Owner Services are reading from the playbook from Customer Service at the airlines.

I'm thinking less owners per bird may help with some of the above problems.

Instead of 16 owners, maybe 10?

Does anyone know if most of the owners of a 1/16th share use there full 50 hours?

Most of my customers complain about the monthly charges at the Fractionals. They feel if they don't fly their airplane that month, they shouldn't be charge. They would rather buy block time, like the Marquis Card with NJ.

That being said, the ego driver still creates a need for ownership and not just plan charter.

I figure 10 owners with 75 hours per year may work out well, but I could be wrong...

Any thoughts?

 

[smfav8r]

Dilligaff,

Thanks for the response.

I agree with you 100% about listening to the crews.

Luckily for my crews, I still fly constently. And man do I get earfulls when something is completely FUBAR!

I try and fix any and all of the problems brought up by the crews. So far, so good.

I'm trying to get a jump on any associated problems with fractional ownership, trying to get it right out of the shoot so to speak.

I'm hoping to learn from any mistakes some of the bigger companies make.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[notaNJApilot]

16 owners per a/c? 10 owners per a/c? that's still too much. more owners means more possibility of someone else wanting your aircraft at the same time you do. so the fix is to have more aircraft available, but as a startup, you probably don't have that option.

when santulli started NetJets, he sold quarter shares...hence the QS tail.

things like the marquis jet card with 1/32 shares are another contributing factor to the lack of profit at netjets.

 

[notaNJApilot]

and like Dilligaf said, these people are millionaires. maybe it would be worthwhile to staff your owner services department with people capable of dealing with persons of prestige.

 

[flyboycpa]

Most of my customers complain about the monthly charges at the Fractionals. They feel if they don't fly their airplane that month, they shouldn't be charge.
?

That makes no sense at all. If you owned the entire thing, you'd be incurring fixed expenses for every month you owned the airplane (hangar, insurance, calendar-based maintenance, etc.). Same goes for your full-time pilot. You think he's gonna work for you as a "full-timer" and be ok with not getting paid for a month or two because you decide that you don't want to fly your plane? I think not! These customers aren't being charged direct operating expenses (fuel, oil, catering, etc.) if they aren't flying. Those are included in their share price allocation per hour of use.

Also, the quote by Dilligaf about these people not becoming millionairs by being idiots is true. Sometimes they are just born into it! Those are the worst kind! Normally the self-made millionair is far easier to deal with than the 15-50 year old that is riding daddy's coattail of success!

just my thoughts,
fb

 

[NJAowner]

Qs

when santulli started NetJets, he sold quarter shares...hence the QS tail.

From what I heard it was not even that exciting. When RTS started NetJets, an analysis was done as to what 2 letters had the most tail numbers available to register. It was QS. The rest is lore.

Fly safe.

 

[Sparse]

When I flew for a Frac a common thread seemed to be a lack of truth telling and straightforwardness from owner services. Apparently, being BSed and outright lied to was a fairly common occurence.

One example: We had an early morning trip originally scheduled for another airplane. Because of duty/rest requirements, we would not be able to make the original pickup time. When we arrived, the owner casually asked "So you guys had some weather delays getting out of XYZ I hear?", when in fact the weather was fine. Owner Services made up a bogus story rather than just tell the guy the real situation. When they find out about things like that (which they often do, because by and large they aren't stupid), it leaves a very bad taste in their mouths.

Amen brother. My biggest complaint with Owner services is not letting the crews in on the lie. If you are going to lie to the owners, at least let me know what the lie is.

 

[gunfyter]

How do you know OPS isn't lying to Owner Services?

Also what may have been true before ... can change as soon as a phone hangs up.

I have had at least 4 different releases for different trips ... and probably more line changes than that on occasion.

Now I have fueled for a 3 hr flight and they want me to fly 20 minutes. No can do we are too heavy ... gonna be way late.

Now OS has "lied" ... but its not their fault.

 

[Diesel]

I really don't give a crap who lies to whom. I tell the truth and only the truth to the owners.

They are smart people. They appreciate the truth.

 

[BSlapped]

Questions for smfav8r

So tell us smurfav8r,

How many planes do you have?

How many pilots do you have?

How many customers do you have?

I just learned the answers to those questions - zero, zero and zero, respectively! It's hard to have any planes, pilots and customers without an operating certificate! When will the BS end?



BSlapped!

 

[MorePilotPay]

How do you know OPS isn't lying to Owner Services?

Also what may have been true before ... can change as soon as a phone hangs up.

I have had at least 4 different releases for different trips ... and probably more line changes than that on occasion.

Now I have fueled for a 3 hr flight and they want me to fly 20 minutes. No can do we are too heavy ... gonna be way late.

Now OS has "lied" ... but its not their fault.

I agree.

Someone mentioned that one of the Owners complaints is "Scheduling". I'm sure the Owner's don't say they are unhappy with "Scheduling", they call us and book the trip for whatever time they want.

Now if we can't get it there for some operational reason it may not be "Scheduling's" fault. I think on-time performance might be a little more applicable here, what do you think?

 

[Publishers]

I recently met with a customer who was getting out of his fractional shares and wanted to buy his own aircraft.

His biggest complaint, he goes on multiple stop trips. He cannot leave his stuff in the aircraft, does not know what will be there when he comes back, does not know who the pilots are but knows they will not be the same that brought him, flight crews that run out of time and keep him standing there, the no personal attention and identification he seeks. and high fees for all the above.
Basically he wants his own aircraft and dedicated crew.

 

[Diesel]

Publishers does anyone actually believe the crap you print?

You just described the absolute anti fractional owner. Of course we should be used to your crap by now.

D