doh
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doh
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justmeinmsp
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justmeinmsp
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doh
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Hypocritical? All I posted was two links, one of which was accompanied by an "Oh snap" because the accident caused an entire days flight cancellations. That is going to cause some scrutiny. I said nothing about any individuals actions. Unlike you, South Park Timmy and and the rest of the yammer crowd, who immediately personally attacked the pilots who were involved in the earlier accidents, I merely am reporting what happened. Hypocrisy is exclusively the province of FOKs and sycophants like you.
That's lot of investment to qualify an FO.
FWIW, this is not a new phenomenon. Almost 20 years ago, I had a new hire show up at my base and proudly proclaim that he had taken 23 hours of training to pass a SIC check in the EMB 110 Bandeirante, which is basically a *****cat to fly and featured only the simplest of systems. Much to my relief, he ran off to a BE 1900 commuter operator as soon as he had 100 hours of turbine time in his log.
TexasChallenger
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Imissmypilot
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Hmmm... i heard it was one particularly douchey flexjetter and a transfer.
Both stellar examples of humanity I hear. If it's true regarding the Flexjetter's identity he's a decent stick but just a dew swiggling asshat.
Alas maybe the union "rhetoric" about the complacency dangers of Red Label (and limited crews which resulted in a similar problem at the time of the phenom incident) are now undeniable. I wonder how much money Kenn can throw at more "marketing" interviews to run customers off the scent of the BS trail.
Both stellar examples of humanity I hear. If it's true regarding the Flexjetter's identity he's a decent stick but just a dew swiggling asshat.
Alas maybe the union "rhetoric" about the complacency dangers of Red Label (and limited crews which resulted in a similar problem at the time of the phenom incident) are now undeniable. I wonder how much money Kenn can throw at more "marketing" interviews to run customers off the scent of the BS trail.
Imissmypilot
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Oh come on el, you have to admit it's not really hypocritical when it's been predicted/trending for 2 years now.
Remember, these are just the incidents we hear about. How many more do we never hear about? At least a couple.
Fact is my Red Label friend, the complacency issue is even greater on the Gulfstreams due to limited crew pairing options. Luckily we know the promises are a farce on the 350s with regular line pilots doing the lions share. Kenns marketing promises of military like precision bourne out of familiarity are in fact the programs biggest issue.
But yeah you all deserve that extra 100k a year. Your wives will need it to pay for all the straws and panera soup to feed your gorked out ass after Uncle screws her on the permanent disability. That is in case you're lucky enough to live.
Sorry - too snarky for you? Or is that just hyper-critcal too?
Last edited:
Imissmypilot
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El raton, after a bit of sleep and some more info I've decided to amrmend my response.
I'm not trying to be a dick but I am still having a hard time understanding why you are so willing to screw the entire union you otherwise support over an ISL where you essentially lost very little in comparison to what could have been. Additionally with more and more attrition and loss of longevity from the transfers it looks like your group (admittedly the only group to lose but overall not horribly) will fare better than expected.
Regarding the incident, I heard the Flops guy called a buddy admitting they were only partially stabilized, knew it but under pressure from both company and passengers to make the schedule. They are in fear for their jobs, as well they should be, and considering reaching out to the union.
If the primary factor was pressure, the union should and will protect these guys. If it was just douchey bravado, I say let them burn. There should be a downside to spitting in the face of the only entity looking out for you. However, the union doesn't take my advice and will provide support if it's asked for either way.
If true (regarding stabilization) that information needs to be spread far and wide. The fast train to the degradation of professionalism will ruin this company faster than uncle's money swindling schemes. We need to realize as the primary commodity this company has we are more in control of the pace of destruction than even KR himself.
In a very ironic twist, the union which protects our right to be professional is the only thing that can save Kenn from Kenn. If you want a company able to employ you in 5 years and afford that nice Red Label cheddar you've been getting that is precisely WHY we need a union: to protect us from the ire of a management team that has zero respect for our professional expertise and input.
And we need that union to not be in Kenn's pocket.
Do you think regardless of the circumstances guys like Wookie, Windbags or Phildo would have your back in a similar position? Absolutely not. They would justify the lack of support by claiming you reap the consequences of your decisions, regardless of the circumstances that lead, incentivize or pressure you into those decisions. I can actually recall at least 2 of them saying this verbatim in the past but they are generals you are going to march behind? They are cowards. To them it is much easier to cower (by refusal to look at the whole picture) than risk uncle's ire. How can you ignore the fact this decertification game is just a straw man to get uncle back in complete control of "his" company.
If you don't want to believe me, get on your precious porn lounge and ask them out of the gate what their game plan to protect these pilots is, right now, regardless of any further information. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll give a stellar (and believable) answer we can get behind but I'm betting they won't.
I feel bad for the crew. I really do. But in a strange way maybe this continual degradation of professionalism and the proven safety risks inherent to the dedicated crew (or limited crew) concept is the best motovation we have had in a long time to get back to the truth of the matters at hand.
Without a doubt we pilots need a union (and a strong cohesive union) not because of money or pride or perks but because we need a strong, cohesive force backing us up against a management team that insists on a market strategy and standard of operations that will ruin our ability to truly exhibit the professionalisn our passengers are depending on.
Your divide and conquer buddies are making some poor and shortsighted decisions. If they truly want what's best for their fellow pilots, company and industry they do not have to reinvent the wheel. They just need to start helping to peddle the wheels already in place and stop falling for the traps that continue to delay progress toward a CBA we could be proud to have. That delay is the only thing management wants and your decert game is a silver platter to that end.
I'm not trying to be a dick but I am still having a hard time understanding why you are so willing to screw the entire union you otherwise support over an ISL where you essentially lost very little in comparison to what could have been. Additionally with more and more attrition and loss of longevity from the transfers it looks like your group (admittedly the only group to lose but overall not horribly) will fare better than expected.
Regarding the incident, I heard the Flops guy called a buddy admitting they were only partially stabilized, knew it but under pressure from both company and passengers to make the schedule. They are in fear for their jobs, as well they should be, and considering reaching out to the union.
If the primary factor was pressure, the union should and will protect these guys. If it was just douchey bravado, I say let them burn. There should be a downside to spitting in the face of the only entity looking out for you. However, the union doesn't take my advice and will provide support if it's asked for either way.
If true (regarding stabilization) that information needs to be spread far and wide. The fast train to the degradation of professionalism will ruin this company faster than uncle's money swindling schemes. We need to realize as the primary commodity this company has we are more in control of the pace of destruction than even KR himself.
In a very ironic twist, the union which protects our right to be professional is the only thing that can save Kenn from Kenn. If you want a company able to employ you in 5 years and afford that nice Red Label cheddar you've been getting that is precisely WHY we need a union: to protect us from the ire of a management team that has zero respect for our professional expertise and input.
And we need that union to not be in Kenn's pocket.
Do you think regardless of the circumstances guys like Wookie, Windbags or Phildo would have your back in a similar position? Absolutely not. They would justify the lack of support by claiming you reap the consequences of your decisions, regardless of the circumstances that lead, incentivize or pressure you into those decisions. I can actually recall at least 2 of them saying this verbatim in the past but they are generals you are going to march behind? They are cowards. To them it is much easier to cower (by refusal to look at the whole picture) than risk uncle's ire. How can you ignore the fact this decertification game is just a straw man to get uncle back in complete control of "his" company.
If you don't want to believe me, get on your precious porn lounge and ask them out of the gate what their game plan to protect these pilots is, right now, regardless of any further information. Maybe I'm wrong and they'll give a stellar (and believable) answer we can get behind but I'm betting they won't.
I feel bad for the crew. I really do. But in a strange way maybe this continual degradation of professionalism and the proven safety risks inherent to the dedicated crew (or limited crew) concept is the best motovation we have had in a long time to get back to the truth of the matters at hand.
Without a doubt we pilots need a union (and a strong cohesive union) not because of money or pride or perks but because we need a strong, cohesive force backing us up against a management team that insists on a market strategy and standard of operations that will ruin our ability to truly exhibit the professionalisn our passengers are depending on.
Your divide and conquer buddies are making some poor and shortsighted decisions. If they truly want what's best for their fellow pilots, company and industry they do not have to reinvent the wheel. They just need to start helping to peddle the wheels already in place and stop falling for the traps that continue to delay progress toward a CBA we could be proud to have. That delay is the only thing management wants and your decert game is a silver platter to that end.
doh
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Rumor has it Flops was not acting alone on this one. One Flexjetter and and one Flops.
TexasChallenger
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Imissmypilot
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Imissmypilot
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I just got a PM that supppsedly the flexjetter was not directly involved. The extent of his previously reported consternation regarding his reaching out have more to do with his concerns of down time and financial loss related to the possible removal of 2/3 of his crew.
He's willing to throw them under the bus just not if it results in any loss on his part. No concern if they are worthy of their positions, no concern if they were pressured beyond their professional assessments, just pure selfish guile.
Knowing him I'd expect nothing less. Stellar human being. A prime example of the dedicated crew concept. Apparently just not dedicated to each other.
He's willing to throw them under the bus just not if it results in any loss on his part. No concern if they are worthy of their positions, no concern if they were pressured beyond their professional assessments, just pure selfish guile.
Knowing him I'd expect nothing less. Stellar human being. A prime example of the dedicated crew concept. Apparently just not dedicated to each other.
doh
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RA for Treasurer! :laugh: Now that's some funny shiz right there!!!:laugh:
GlorifiedCabbie
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