Flex pays $245,000/year?

[GlorifiedCabbie]

Recently a Flex pilot was bragging about making over $245,000 per year in a certain popular FBO. This pilot (AN) was hired less than 2 years ago! Can this be true?

 

[Club ORD FO]

That would be about right for a senior red label pilot. $1000 a day plus overtime and bonus. But a two year pilot would not be able to hold that position. Was he bragging on behalf of his captain?

 

[flyer49er]

Recently a Flex pilot was bragging about making over $245,000 per year in a certain popular FBO. This pilot (AN) was hired less than 2 years ago! Can this be true?

Not even close.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/fractional/flexjet

15 Year Challenger pilot working 195 day schedule is $142,000, International bonus is $100 a day, so even if every day that was worked was international (which would be impossible) that would still only be $161,500.

So lets be realistic, $142,000 plus say 30 days international so another $3,000 is $145,000, even at $1,000/day for overtime he'd have to work 295 days a year. Maybe he does, but he'd have no life.

 

[Club ORD FO]

The pay scales on that website are not accurate.

 

[Propilot77]

Not even close.

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/fractional/flexjet

15 Year Challenger pilot working 195 day schedule is $142,000, International bonus is $100 a day, so even if every day that was worked was international (which would be impossible) that would still only be $161,500.

So lets be realistic, $142,000 plus say 30 days international so another $3,000 is $145,000, even at $1,000/day for overtime he'd have to work 295 days a year. Maybe he does, but he'd have no life.

You didn't read club ORD's post. Red Label guys ARE making that, And those pay rates are not posted on Airline Pilot Central.

 

[Bjtdrvr]

Aren't they making that only if they get the incentive bonus?

 

[doh]

Remember, we have 28 day bid periods. So there are 13 "bid months" in a year. 13x16 days equals 208. So at $1000/day, a red label pilot starts out with a base of $208,000. Bonuses were between $25k-$30k this year. They offered me (regular line swine) at least ten overtime "opportunities" last year. So yes, it is possible to make $245k, but if AN is the new "safety" officer transfer from Options, then he has a management position. His salary is not driven by flight days.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Aren't they making that only if they get the incentive bonus?

Management recently admitted they have no way to separate the metrics so they get the bonus regardless.

 

[Imissmypilot]

That would be about right for a senior red label pilot. $1000 a day plus overtime and bonus. But a two year pilot would not be able to hold that position. Was he bragging on behalf of his captain?

ummmm... pretty sure some of the legacy guys are fairly junior right? So not far off.

Additionally, we have 10 year legacy Captains making 75kmin more than maxed out 22 year 604 Captains so it's all personal perspective on which chaps your *************** more.

Finding it funny as hell they serve together on union leadership. ********************ing joke is what it is.

If our own leadership can't wake up, why should I bother stirring the sleeping souls of my compadres? I want to - after all it's a friggen nightmare - but when the alarm clock is broken at the factory level, it's just not possible.

This thread makes me ********************ing furious. ClubORD, why are you so chill about it? I just don't think you guys get it sometimes.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Remember, we have 28 day bid periods. So there are 13 "bid months" in a year. 13x16 days equals 208. So at $1000/day, a red label pilot starts out with a base of $208,000. Bonuses were between $25k-$30k this year. They offered me (regular line swine) at least ten overtime "opportunities" last year. So yes, it is possible to make $245k, but if AN is the new "safety" officer transfer from Options, then he has a management position. His salary is not driven by flight days.

I could be wrong but I believe they are also getting pretty sweet quarterly bonuses too or did that stop? Honestly it's so ********************ed up I'm not really paying attention anymore.

Adding that most of these guys are working 18 days a bid. So increase your base to $234k plus $30k plus OT plus ooohhh ******************** it I guess I'm just gonna pour the rest of the bottle now and it's not even dark out. ******************** that math. That is ridiculous.

That's Delta money baby. But at least at Delta you don't have to suck a tiny guidos d**k to get it.

 

[Club ORD FO]

The domestic red label pay is nice, that's for sure, but is it fair that those guys got a huge raise while the challenger captains, Lear captains, and all the FOs got nothing? No it's not. I'm not sure how junior the legacy went, I haven't looked at the list. Why am I so chill about it? Because I'm hoping the arbitrator will agree that the huge disparity in pay scales is not right and it'll be fixed.

 

[Imissmypilot]

ARBITRATOR? Perhaps, just perhaps if we got a little less chill and a little more realistic about how truly ********************ed up this situation is we would have the leverage to not worry about an arbitrator

I am stunned you union people seem to suffer under the delusion an arbitrator is a good thing. Uncle pushed you into it for a reason.

Arbitration will end up with neither side scoring big. And for KR that is a huge win.

 

[Honorstudent]

OK so here is a question IMP, do you or do you not support the Union? Just curious, you refer to some pilots as "you union people". As far as I know the union has always tried to negotiate with the company on a contract. The only recourse they have at this juncture is to arbitrate some sections of the contract. BTW I am not who you think I am and definitely not a red label pilot.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

So why is Uncle paying that much? Options has guy that have been here 20 years and are only making half that much.

 

[Imissmypilot]

OK so here is a question IMP, do you or do you not support the Union? Just curious, you refer to some pilots as "you union people". As far as I know the union has always tried to negotiate with the company on a contract. The only recourse they have at this juncture is to arbitrate some sections of the contract. BTW I am not who you think I am and definitely not a red label pilot.

"You union people" is in response to those who have taken on the responsibility of speaking for the whole pilot group.

I'll be honest I am much more pleased with the options side of the house when it comes to this union business and I do believe the options side has and is receiving better representation.

You bring up red label so let's go there since every "union people" I've discusssd this with absolutely refuses to touch it. Looking at the difference in pay scales and recognizing the extreme disparity and seniority gouging the program represents I am pissed. I am livid. It is so antithetical to what is best for the entirety of the pilot group. We won't rehash it here piece by piece but it is proven red label is a farce. The owners aren't different, the crews are mixed with the regular line and if anything the aircraft are at least equally if not more crappily maintained. I don't know about the legacy or gulfstreams but I can guarantee you the condition of some of the rl challengers are laughable compared to the regular line fleet.

So if red label as a concept itself is a farce, it is obvious then to even the dumbest man there is more going on with the huge pay disparity. It is meant only to be divisive and to appeal to the lesser parts of a man. The more selfish, arrogant and greedy parts of a man. Why appeal to those parts? Because uncle knows if he can get you to give into it, he can win you over.

Out of the group individuals who campaigned to bring this union here, of those still here half are now either red label or on the list. Those choices happened after, yes AFTER, the decision to convince the rest of us about the dangers of our new owner and his way of doing business. That choice happened AFTER they spoke about the dangers of dismantling seniority and FoK-ish programs. Those choices happened AFTER a call to sacrifice some of our pay now (in the form of dues) for promises of a future CBA but meanwhile their pay doubled in some cases.

So if you catch my sometimes derisive and disgusted tone when I say "you union people" maybe now you understand.

That is why I have a disdain for people who said they will speak for me but then when the chips fell, they really choose themselves every time. I don't trust them, they are not honorable and it is not leadership to put yourself ahead of others without some willingness to sacrifice for the opportunity.

When it comes to the union side at Flexjet the proof is in the pudding that unaffected leadership gets you ineffective results every time. I do maintain a certain level of respect for those "union people" who are choosing integrity over opportunity but the more they defend the actions of red label leadership via silence, the faster it dwindles.

 

[doh]

It's pretty easy to point out everyone else's faults while hiding and refusing to help change things. That is a huge problem on our side of the house.

 

[Imissmypilot]

It's pretty easy to point out everyone else's faults while hiding and refusing to help change things. That is a huge problem on our side of the house.

So says a guy who can't wait to get his spot on a red label crew.

Sorry DoH that has been the only issue I've been vocally critical about and it's killing the union effort. You probrably don't hear it because it's well known what your self serving position really is. To my knowledge only 5 individuals who have served in an official capacity (out of 15 or so) have not been a red label turncoat. (AF, MB, GG, RM and VF). Yes I keep track. Maybe some others have recinded their choice and that's to be commended (like KW and KR) but I see yours is still there. You are clueless if don't see how much red label divides us.

Whatever. This red label issue in tandem with the fact I've probrably written more to gain support for the unuon then our own suppoded flex leadership, maybe I'll hust consider it help not wanted. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[doh]

Check your pm

 

[Honorstudent]

IMP I have to say as an Options Pilot I agree with what you have posted. My integrity and the fact that Red Label is a devisive tool used by this Managment to ultimately divide this Pilot group and conquer the Union which in the companies view is a third party interloper, I personally will never bid Red Label until my seniority can hold it and there is a JCBA in place. I have seen this Circus before only it was called dedicated crewing and everyone was dedicated to an A/C, the 20% of the Pilots receiving higher compensation were called SFO's or Senior Flight Officer's, the interview for SFO meant you had to be willing to do whatever it took to get the job done, flying broke, tired, hungry, also as an SFO you had to be willing to rat on any pilot that drank any alcohol (let's say a single beer with dinner),while off duty during his 8 day rotation, because at that time there was a no alcohol policy while on 8 day tour. Both programs were untenable and went away eventually, now the company has a reason to once again put forth a program that fly's in the face of there latest safety training video, Familiarity breeds complacency, and complacency is one of the major causes of the normalization of deviance, which has been credited with numerous A/C accidents. So why would a company risk a single accident with something called Red Label? It is very simple the man calling all the shot's hates Union's that much, even thoe he will tell you he was a member of ALPA among other thing's like that he was military trained so on and so forth.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

, now the company has a reason to once again put forth a program that fly's in the face of there latest safety training video, Familiarity breeds complacency, and complacency is one of the major causes of the normalization of deviance, which has been credited with numerous A/C accidents. So why would a company risk a single accident with something called Red Label? It is very simple the man calling all the shot's hates Union's that much, even thoe he will tell you he was a member of ALPA among other thing's like that he was military trained so on and so forth.

That statement sure tells it like it is. There is the public image(safety training video), and then there is the reality of the way Uncle Kenn wants to run his empire.

 

[Imissmypilot]

I recieved a text earlier today about several well known but pathetic red label captains bragging about this thread and claiming we are way off. They cleared 300k easily.

So if it's true and you're out there lurking I hope your soul was worth the price but I doubt it.

 

[shanes123]

They can brag all they want. Don't change the fact that they are scum.

 

[John MClain]

When it comes to the union side at Flexjet the proof is in the pudding that unaffected leadership gets you ineffective results every time. I do maintain a certain level of respect for those "union people" who are choosing integrity over opportunity but the more they defend the actions of red label leadership via silence, the faster it dwindles.

Hey brother,

What exactly would you have the FJ-PLC do at this point? The time for a statement or response would have been immediately after AP, SM and AH defected and exposed their true traitorous colors. Anything done now would just be fodder for the Anti-union crowd. How about putting some of that angst your pointing at the PLC towards those who really deserve it. The Flexjet pilots themselves.

The Red Label group walks around like Rock Stars. They brag about their wallets getting fat and justify it by saying how they are providing a superior product to our owners than their mainline counterparts and no one says a word to them. These individuals should ashamed of themselves but they are not because no one is showing get them the complete and utter lack of respect and contempt they so rightfully deserve. They should be shunned, ignored and given not one ounce of civility by those whom they've deceived and left behind by their selfish and profoundly unprofessional behavior.

And if you think the lack of open condemnation by the union leadership is or means condoning Red Label than you are not as smart as I thought.

 

[John MClain]

Oh, BTW IMP. You can add MG to the list you're keeping track of.

 

[1folinepilot]

Hey brother,

What exactly would you have the FJ-PLC do at this point? The time for a statement or response would have been immediately after AP, SM and AH defected and exposed their true traitorous colors. Anything done now would just be fodder for the Anti-union crowd. How about putting some of that angst your pointing at the PLC towards those who really deserve it. The Flexjet pilots themselves.

The Red Label group walks around like Rock Stars. They brag about their wallets getting fat and justify it by saying how they are providing a superior product to our owners than their mainline counterparts and no one says a word to them. These individuals should ashamed of themselves but they are not because no one is showing get them the complete and utter lack of respect and contempt they so rightfully deserve. They should be shunned, ignored and given not one ounce of civility by those whom they've deceived and left behind by their selfish and profoundly unprofessional behavior.

And if you think the lack of open condemnation by the union leadership is or means condoning Red Label than you are not as smart as I thought.

Red Label is a joke. It is absolutely the same level of service that everybody provides. The only difference is the regular line pilots paid the Red Label wages out of below industry pay and loss of 401K match.

 

[shanes123]

Thats why this list of names needs to be circulated its very important that gets done. make sure their decisions of today follow them the rest of their careers.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

So, if these pilots are making so much money, why do they STEAL other crews food? Says a lot about their personality.

 

[Imissmypilot]

Thats why this list of names needs to be circulated its very important that gets done. make sure their decisions of today follow them the rest of their careers.

I disagree. They are not scabs; they are pilots who disagree. As much as I have disdain for the petition and question the thought process behind it, the term scab is a serious one and bandying the term about because of a stupid petition (that actually helps the union by identifying the relative little support the company has foe decertification) is not a good idea.

It should not follow them for the rest of their career, but John Mcclain is right, it should be following them around for the short term. Every OneSky pilot who is waiting on an end to this mess and a JCBA should be holding them personally responsible for yet another delay tactic the company will try to exploit.

The idiots don't get it. The letter to the owners went out to encourage Kenn to start negotiating, which has been proven in federal court he has yet to do. The lies coming from management are crazy. For instance I recently saw a post were RH was using talking points from the old NJA battle regarding dues payments. It is getting crazy and you have to be very, very careful about just who or what to believe.

Regarding the letter anyone who has ever been in a divorce or custody situation has been through similar battles. Unfortunately it has to get a little ugly sometimes before it gets better. I'd like to say I always took the high road but the fact is I did not because some things were required to get things moving and compel the other party to stop with the drama. Regarding the petition, it is similar to someone who cries victim in a desperate attempt to swing the pendulum but the tactic only works so long.

I know Kenn likes to compare his company philosophy to marriage and family and in a way he could not be more correct than with the current situation. If you are lucky enough to have no idea about how ugly things can get in family court then good for you but if Kenn keeps playing games, my inclination is to believe we ain't seen nothing yet.

 

[Imissmypilot]

So, if these pilots are making so much money, why do they STEAL other crews food? Says a lot about their personality.

True that! The quick answer is because they will do anything and everything to save money toward their bonus. If they can steal it, why let it count against their precious bone-us?

I once had a red label crew run toward me and try to jump in on my ford festiva uber ride out of KTEB. I asked them if they were serious to which they incredulously replied yes. I just starting laughing and told them to have a nice day as I slammed the 2 ounce door in their face.

 

[shanes123]

well IMP we do disagree on that. Anyone that would go to the lengths these pilots have gone to screw over a fellow pilots for a Bigger, plane and a few more bucks should have to live with those decisions FOREVER and its only fair to any fellow employer or pilot group to know what they are getting before they hire or have to work with them