Flex pays $245,000/year?

[Club ORD FO]

The domestic red label pay is nice, that's for sure, but is it fair that those guys got a huge raise while the challenger captains, Lear captains, and all the FOs got nothing? No it's not. I'm not sure how junior the legacy went, I haven't looked at the list. Why am I so chill about it? Because I'm hoping the arbitrator will agree that the huge disparity in pay scales is not right and it'll be fixed.

 

[Imissmypilot]

ARBITRATOR? Perhaps, just perhaps if we got a little less chill and a little more realistic about how truly ********************ed up this situation is we would have the leverage to not worry about an arbitrator

I am stunned you union people seem to suffer under the delusion an arbitrator is a good thing. Uncle pushed you into it for a reason.

Arbitration will end up with neither side scoring big. And for KR that is a huge win.

 

[Honorstudent]

OK so here is a question IMP, do you or do you not support the Union? Just curious, you refer to some pilots as "you union people". As far as I know the union has always tried to negotiate with the company on a contract. The only recourse they have at this juncture is to arbitrate some sections of the contract. BTW I am not who you think I am and definitely not a red label pilot.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

So why is Uncle paying that much? Options has guy that have been here 20 years and are only making half that much.

 

[Imissmypilot]

OK so here is a question IMP, do you or do you not support the Union? Just curious, you refer to some pilots as "you union people". As far as I know the union has always tried to negotiate with the company on a contract. The only recourse they have at this juncture is to arbitrate some sections of the contract. BTW I am not who you think I am and definitely not a red label pilot.

"You union people" is in response to those who have taken on the responsibility of speaking for the whole pilot group.

I'll be honest I am much more pleased with the options side of the house when it comes to this union business and I do believe the options side has and is receiving better representation.

You bring up red label so let's go there since every "union people" I've discusssd this with absolutely refuses to touch it. Looking at the difference in pay scales and recognizing the extreme disparity and seniority gouging the program represents I am pissed. I am livid. It is so antithetical to what is best for the entirety of the pilot group. We won't rehash it here piece by piece but it is proven red label is a farce. The owners aren't different, the crews are mixed with the regular line and if anything the aircraft are at least equally if not more crappily maintained. I don't know about the legacy or gulfstreams but I can guarantee you the condition of some of the rl challengers are laughable compared to the regular line fleet.

So if red label as a concept itself is a farce, it is obvious then to even the dumbest man there is more going on with the huge pay disparity. It is meant only to be divisive and to appeal to the lesser parts of a man. The more selfish, arrogant and greedy parts of a man. Why appeal to those parts? Because uncle knows if he can get you to give into it, he can win you over.

Out of the group individuals who campaigned to bring this union here, of those still here half are now either red label or on the list. Those choices happened after, yes AFTER, the decision to convince the rest of us about the dangers of our new owner and his way of doing business. That choice happened AFTER they spoke about the dangers of dismantling seniority and FoK-ish programs. Those choices happened AFTER a call to sacrifice some of our pay now (in the form of dues) for promises of a future CBA but meanwhile their pay doubled in some cases.

So if you catch my sometimes derisive and disgusted tone when I say "you union people" maybe now you understand.

That is why I have a disdain for people who said they will speak for me but then when the chips fell, they really choose themselves every time. I don't trust them, they are not honorable and it is not leadership to put yourself ahead of others without some willingness to sacrifice for the opportunity.

When it comes to the union side at Flexjet the proof is in the pudding that unaffected leadership gets you ineffective results every time. I do maintain a certain level of respect for those "union people" who are choosing integrity over opportunity but the more they defend the actions of red label leadership via silence, the faster it dwindles.

 

[doh]

It's pretty easy to point out everyone else's faults while hiding and refusing to help change things. That is a huge problem on our side of the house.

 

[Imissmypilot]

It's pretty easy to point out everyone else's faults while hiding and refusing to help change things. That is a huge problem on our side of the house.

So says a guy who can't wait to get his spot on a red label crew.

Sorry DoH that has been the only issue I've been vocally critical about and it's killing the union effort. You probrably don't hear it because it's well known what your self serving position really is. To my knowledge only 5 individuals who have served in an official capacity (out of 15 or so) have not been a red label turncoat. (AF, MB, GG, RM and VF). Yes I keep track. Maybe some others have recinded their choice and that's to be commended (like KW and KR) but I see yours is still there. You are clueless if don't see how much red label divides us.

Whatever. This red label issue in tandem with the fact I've probrably written more to gain support for the unuon then our own suppoded flex leadership, maybe I'll hust consider it help not wanted. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[doh]

Check your pm

 

[Honorstudent]

IMP I have to say as an Options Pilot I agree with what you have posted. My integrity and the fact that Red Label is a devisive tool used by this Managment to ultimately divide this Pilot group and conquer the Union which in the companies view is a third party interloper, I personally will never bid Red Label until my seniority can hold it and there is a JCBA in place. I have seen this Circus before only it was called dedicated crewing and everyone was dedicated to an A/C, the 20% of the Pilots receiving higher compensation were called SFO's or Senior Flight Officer's, the interview for SFO meant you had to be willing to do whatever it took to get the job done, flying broke, tired, hungry, also as an SFO you had to be willing to rat on any pilot that drank any alcohol (let's say a single beer with dinner),while off duty during his 8 day rotation, because at that time there was a no alcohol policy while on 8 day tour. Both programs were untenable and went away eventually, now the company has a reason to once again put forth a program that fly's in the face of there latest safety training video, Familiarity breeds complacency, and complacency is one of the major causes of the normalization of deviance, which has been credited with numerous A/C accidents. So why would a company risk a single accident with something called Red Label? It is very simple the man calling all the shot's hates Union's that much, even thoe he will tell you he was a member of ALPA among other thing's like that he was military trained so on and so forth.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

, now the company has a reason to once again put forth a program that fly's in the face of there latest safety training video, Familiarity breeds complacency, and complacency is one of the major causes of the normalization of deviance, which has been credited with numerous A/C accidents. So why would a company risk a single accident with something called Red Label? It is very simple the man calling all the shot's hates Union's that much, even thoe he will tell you he was a member of ALPA among other thing's like that he was military trained so on and so forth.

That statement sure tells it like it is. There is the public image(safety training video), and then there is the reality of the way Uncle Kenn wants to run his empire.