Warren Buffett wants to cut benefits of his planes? pilots

[realityman]

Two things....

I always thought the saying went "we're not an airline!" Hopefully someone somewhere doesn't dig that up and use it against you in an arbitration....

Second...

As a former furloughee, who got reamed here for airing NJA's dirty laundry when Sokol was in town. ( simply cut and pasting from an online article), it sure seems the tide has changed.....

Best of luck, hopefully you can come close although nearly doubling pay seems a long shot in front of an arbitrator without giving up a lot.

There's no arbitrator. We are in mediation. There is a mediator. It's not semantics. An arbitrator can reach a compromise for the two parties, actually making the decision of what each side gets. A mediator can make SUGGESTIONS, but has no power to compel either side to accept his/her suggestions. If the mediator believes one side or the other just isn't moving, he can park us for a very long time (negotiations can still continue outside of mediation at this time) and there will be no cooling off period or release to strike. Or, the mediator can start the 30-day cooling off period followed by release to self help (strike). Somewhere in there the NMLRB comes into play in releasing us for a strike.

But there is no arbitrator involved in this process. Neither side needs to present anything "reasonable".

Hope this helps. I do get a little cross-eyed with the whole process, so if someone else has some clarity to shed on the subject feel free to chime in.

 

[BentOver]

There's no arbitrator. We are in mediation. There is a mediator. It's not semantics. An arbitrator can reach a compromise for the two parties, actually making the decision of what each side gets. A mediator can make SUGGESTIONS, but has no power to compel either side to accept his/her suggestions. If the mediator believes one side or the other just isn't moving, he can park us for a very long time (negotiations can still continue outside of mediation at this time) and there will be no cooling off period or release to strike. Or, the mediator can start the 30-day cooling off period followed by release to self help (strike). Somewhere in there the NMLRB comes into play in releasing us for a strike.

But there is no arbitrator involved in this process. Neither side needs to present anything "reasonable".

Hope this helps. I do get a little cross-eyed with the whole process, so if someone else has some clarity to shed on the subject feel free to chime in.

Thanks for clarification.... Although I understand the nuts and bolts of the process, terms and obviously the difference you pointed out, escape me.


The point I was trying to make though, if it were to come to a mediator releasing you to self help (or making you wait).. The idea that for years and years the pilot rhetoric has been "we are not an airline..." But now you want airline pay....

Someone( mediator) could look at that and think..."wait a minute, they have been stating for years they are not an airline".

I know it's a small and probably unimportant point to make, but just throwing it out there for the sake of arguement

 

[gunfyter]

We didn't get released last time ... and we got a contract

 

[BentOver]

We didn't get released last time ... and we got a contract

True, but it was a contract that had SIC's bailing left and right.... There had to be an amendment to it because the company was losing tons on training costs for new hires...(5 bases, $45k starting pay)... And even then IBB saw some gains for management...

And it is the same contract that is now being referred to as a POS...

NJA wasn't the "elite"" place to go until 2007... And that only lasted 2years... NJA's time at the top was very short. The 2005 contract was not the greatest ever( which is what NJASAP is going for now)

 

[Mooneymite]

We didn't get released last time ... and we got a contract

According to Pedro's latest missive, he thinks Hansell wants a strike.

For us to prevail through a strike lockout, we need:

1. Absolute unity.
2. Each individual financially prepared for a period of no income/no benefits.

So, as I see it, 50% of our success depends on us individually.

Are YOU ready?

 

[Diesel]

It was interesting on the call that the pilot shortage will not have any affect on this negotiations.

There will always be a bottom feeder 135 or regional that needs a job and this place is better than where they are at.

Since the company puts no value on pilots and we can be swapped out at any time this is perfect for them.

 

[BentOver]

It was interesting on the call that the pilot shortage will not have any affect on this negotiations.

There will always be a bottom feeder 135 or regional that needs a job and this place is better than where they are at.

Since the company puts no value on pilots and we can be swapped out at any time this is perfect for them.

The company doesn't care about experience levels...

It is true there will always be a 2500hr guy at a risky dink 135 who wants to do better and go to NJA...

And he/she will fly with a Captain who has 15-20+ years at NJA ( most captains will not leave). In the end no planes will crash, the Captain may need to do a little instructing until that SIC gets some experience, and passengers will not truly notice a difference..... And the company will still say they have the best.

 

[realityman]

And he/she will fly with a Captain who has 15-20+ years at NJA ( most captains will not leave). In the end no planes will crash, the Captain may need to do a little instructing until that SIC gets some experience, and passengers will not truly notice a difference..... And the company will still say they have the best.

The number of captains here beyond 15 years is still a minority. Furthermore, better check your numbers. We've had a number of very senior captains leave here recently. I think there were three alone out of the GLC fleet. Two left for other jobs while one retired.

I think as hiring at the airlines continues to heat up you'll see a very large turnover rate amongst our junior (and younger) folks. It'll be the largest demographic leaving. But don't write off the more senior pilots here as staying. I think you'll be surprised. At 18+ years with the company and the age of 45 I'm now putting together an app for Delta. Dont know if I have any chance, but I'm not married to Netjets anymore.

And I think our clients will care IF THEY KNOW that the experience they're paying for is leaving their planes. However, it will be up to our union leadership to make that info known to our clients through the various forms of communication they have available to them.

Given my experience on the road, I know our clients are well aware of (and not happy with) turnover in owner services. They're probably aware of the ongoing changes in upper management. If they knew about their pilots leaving too it may create more pressure on the EMT. They may not care about us, but I imagine it would create concern amongst them about instability in a company managing their very expensive asset.