NetJets Fires Vice President - Tip of the Iceberg

[Mooneymite]

I was not one of the ones clamoring to dump the IBT back in '06. While the in-house union has been quite popular with the membership and we haven't had to send any money to the IBT, we are now part of "dis-organized labor". The in-house union seems to be the rage in our industry today, but we have damaged the cohesion of organized labor.

The chickens may come home to roost if we actually end up striking. We're going to be all by ourselves and all those "low down" teamsters will be delivering truck loads of stuff to NetJets without a worry about our picket lines.

Yes, the IBT may have been an "unnecessary expense" for all those years, but it would be comforting to have the IBT and its financial clout on our side should we strike.

 

[Pervis]

Mooney, did you not see the fruits of the Herculean efforts by our union in OMA yesterday? Over 400 employees from all four labor groups, some retired guys, and even an elderly guy with a walker put in many miles. In 15 years I have never seen such a well organized event, not to mention the unity displayed by hundreds of our colleagues, many who traveled half way across the country with kids in tow.

PS: IBT did not even have a clue we secured an ammended CBA in '07, and they never even dropped a dime to help us through the '05 battle.

 

[Mooneymite]

Mooney, did you not see the fruits of the Herculean efforts by our union in OMA yesterday? Over 400 employees from all four labor groups, some retired guys, and even an elderly guy with a walker put in many miles. In 15 years I have never seen such a well organized event, not to mention the unity displayed by hundreds of our colleagues, many who traveled half way across the country with kids in tow.

PS: IBT did not even have a clue we secured an ammended CBA in '07, and they never even dropped a dime to help us through the '05 battle.

Actually I did see the picketing up close and personal. I am in no way disparaging the efforts of the in-house union. I am merely stating the obvious: we are not allied with any national labor organization. We are "going it alone". Certainly this is cheaper in the short run, but without a national organization behind us, we will be very vulnerable if/when the strike/lockout comes.

Omaha would have happened just as it did whether we were allied, or not. Neither IBT (nor ALPA, were we allied with it) would have lifted a finger to interfere, help, direct or run the picketing. That is not the function of a national organization.

As long as there is no strike/lock-out, the in-house union will be just fine, but should the big war come, we will not have anyone but ourselves in our corner.

 

[Pervis]

I understand your point and agree to a certain extent. However, if we do strike, based upon the recent 98% vote of no confidence, very few will scab, and there is not enough lift in the charter world to make a dent in our operations. Travel Management is no longer their savior, and our owners will file tons of lawsuits should we strand them more than we do now. It's not like another carrier will cover like the majors do. We have far more leverage than you think.

 

[CA1900]

I'm still 100% in favor of our decision to leave the Teamsters, and not just because it's "cheaper." For our specific group, I also believe it to be more effective in the long run for us to be in complete control of our union. Yes, we had a hiccup, and we worked through it to become stronger than before.

I'm totally confident we'll get a contract worthy of our experience and skill, and that we'll be here long after Hansell and his team have been shown the door.

 

[Mooneymite]

I understand your point and agree to a certain extent. However, if we do strike, based upon the recent 98% vote of no confidence, very few will scab, and there is not enough lift in the charter world to make a dent in our operations. Travel Management is no longer their savior, and our owners will file tons of lawsuits should we strand them more than we do now. It's not like another carrier will cover like the majors do. We have far more leverage than you think.

I have no idea how much labor strife you've seen "up close and personal", but when the strike comes, you will be shocked/amazed at who crosses the line.

I sincerely hope there is no strike/lockout because our union has done/is doing a very poor job of preparing the membership for the realities of a strike/lockout. From day one we should all have been building a personal war chest and making provisions for buying our own medical insurance. When a man's family is hungry he is much more prone to cross. Those pilots who have family members with pre-existing medical conditions will be in a tough situation.

Union loyalty, 90% no confidence votes and chest-beating are all fine and dandy before the strike, but solid personal finance is what will carry the day. Don't take my word for it, ask around and find out how many of your fellow pilots can go six months without a paycheck/insurance.....

I think you will be surprised that many (most?) are deeply in debt with house/car payments and haven't even thought about making provisions for medical coverage. This is not the way to go to war. We've had two years to prepare and time is getting short.

I sincerely hope you are correct in your assessment, but I fear you are wrong.

 

[Hawkered]

Newsflash!!

We're sinking financially, and fast. Running around filing lawsuits against a behemoth might be great for a sound bite in the media, but should not be viewed as a very sound investment strategy.

We've got problems coming our way. Forget about buying a building.

 

[FamilyGuy]

I understand your point and agree to a certain extent. However, if we do strike, based upon the recent 98% vote of no confidence, very few will scab, and there is not enough lift in the charter world to make a dent in our operations. Travel Management is no longer their savior, and our owners will file tons of lawsuits should we strand them more than we do now. It's not like another carrier will cover like the majors do. We have far more leverage than you think.

Newsflash!!

We're sinking financially, and fast. Running around filing lawsuits against a behemoth might be great for a sound bite in the media, but should not be viewed as a very sound investment strategy.

We've got problems coming our way. Forget about buying a building.

Two very interesting viewpoints. I suspect both sides are unprepared for a strike. Which means it will likely come down to who has the most resolve.

Pervis is right in his contention that there is not enough excess lift out there to cover NetJets demand. NJ is having a tough time right now getting enough lift to cover the sell offs, which are a fraction of the total NJ demand. If a strike does occur, NJ would be lucky to find enough lift to cover 25% of the demand, and at an exorbitant cost. The EMT may claim they are prepared for all outcomes, but I doubt it, based on how badly they botched the Signature Flight Support negotiations. When push came to shove, Signature put them on retail for one day before NJ came running back to the table.

That said, if the pilots have failed to plan appropriately for a strike and can't pay their bills for an extended period of time, then that gives the company a decided advantage, one which Jordan won't hesitate to exploit.

 

[Diesel]

Was hawkered in Omaha?

 

[Diesel]

Not from me.



We'll FIND enough money to see this one through to the end. Even if it takes a special assessment.



The discovery phase alone will be EPIC.

We will see how well they payed him to go out the door. If it wasn't enough he might have an axe to grind.

In the end he will be under oath and this is federal law he's messed with.

The yoga will be great in prison. They are going to show him a lot more positions.

 

[ghostrider64]

Best money spent in the past year was filing the law suit. It's the first time the EMT has had to answer to a higher authority, and the first time they had to fire one of their own, all while professing innocence. LOL it's beautiful

 

[gutshotdraw]

Best money spent in the past year was filing the law suit. It's the first time the EMT has had to answer to a higher authority, and the first time they had to fire one of their own, all while professing innocence. LOL it's beautiful

Exactamundo.

 

[wacoflyr]

Until recently, I was employed by a major charter company, one that you currently use to supply extra lift. We discussed this very situation, quite often in fact.

There are always a$$holes, but not one of the pilots I discussed this with will fly struck work. They will put their jobs on the line to avoid doing those flights. There are two pilots in each cockpit, and basically, with proper publicity, few aircraft would fly with your customers. At the very least, there would be serious delays, but in most cases the aircraft would just not fly.

The Problem:

Obviously, it would be easy for that company's management team to disguise NetJets trips. Believe, they will if they can. So, it will be necessary for you guys to figure out how to get the word out on just which are 'struck flights.' Sounds tough to me, but we certainly ID our customers, so maybe it could be done that way.

Don't forget this piece of your little puzzle. You have more support than you know, and if you let the rest of the pilot population help, you will find more people in your corner than you ever dreamed of.

 

[Diesel]

Until recently, I was employed by a major charter company, one that you currently use to supply extra lift. We discussed this very situation, quite often in fact.

There are always a$$holes, but not one of the pilots I discussed this with will fly struck work. They will put their jobs on the line to avoid doing those flights. There are two pilots in each cockpit, and basically, with proper publicity, few aircraft would fly with your customers. At the very least, there would be serious delays, but in most cases the aircraft would just not fly.

The Problem:

Obviously, it would be easy for that company's management team to disguise NetJets trips. Believe, they will if they can. So, it will be necessary for you guys to figure out how to get the word out on just which are 'struck flights.' Sounds tough to me, but we certainly ID our customers, so maybe it could be done that way.

Don't forget this piece of your little puzzle. You have more support than you know, and if you let the rest of the pilot population help, you will find more people in your corner than you ever dreamed of.

I akin it to flying for an owner and then you're flying his buddies as much as you're flying him. You hear his buddy is paying the owner to use his plane.

You know it's happening but there isn't much you can do.

I'm not sure if it makes sense but that's the way I've looked at it.

 

[FLYLOW22]