IBT files lawsuit against Flexjet

[exagony]

It has been confirmed that the IBT has filed a lawsuit against Flexjet on the behalf of the 3 pilots that are being held hostage along with the other pilots that are being intimidated. Wishing the IBT well! Hope this will open some of the fence sitter's eyes and get them to send in their cards.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

So where is Chicken Little? Where is Uncle? Didn't they claim they were the best advocates for the pilots? That's why the IBT is there. To stand up when the average pilot can't. Chicken Little claims the Teamsters National is only after your money. The money the Teamsters spend on litigation with Uncle/DAC far exceeds the dues money the 1108 sends to Washington. Good luck to the Flex pilots that were wronged.

 

[exagony]

The lawsuit opened my eyes to what the reality is and what was being said on yammer. If the Flex pilots don't read this and get their heads out of the sand and send in their cards then they are their own worst enemies.

 

[BlueNose]

So where is Chicken Little? Where is Uncle? Didn't they claim they were the best advocates for the pilots? That's why the IBT is there. To stand up when the average pilot can't. Chicken Little claims the Teamsters National is only after your money. The money the Teamsters spend on litigation with Uncle/DAC far exceeds the dues money the 1108 sends to Washington. Good luck to the Flex pilots that were wronged.

Kenn is just improving pilot morale by firing all the unhappy ones. It's Management by Trust - just trust him.

http://www.despair.com/demotivation.html

 

[Brit]

Best of luck to all! I hope you stay the course and are victorious.

 

[cougar12]

The teamsters don't loose to often. That's why they take their time lining the ducks up! They only fire when they are pretty sure they Can hit their target. Some time they have to put lead in the air just for hope but not often.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

. At Flexjet, our loyalty is to our employees, and we do not believe this lawsuit takes into account our company?s heritage and history of honoring and protecting our family of pilots who have industry leading compensation and work rules,? said Flexjet Chairman, Kenn Ricci.
Is this a Freudian slip? Are you admitting you have turned your back on the Flight Options pilots that worked hard to get you to where you are today?

 

[1folinepilot]

HA HA!!! What a double standard! The Teamsters and the 1108 openly harasses, threatens and bullies select pilots and company employees, but the 1108 runs to the lawyers the minute Management returns the favor and treats them in kind. What a crock of crap

 

[flex*wife]

HA HA!!! What a double standard! The Teamsters and the 1108 openly harasses, threatens and bullies select pilots and company employees, but the 1108 runs to the lawyers the minute Management returns the favor and treats them in kind. What a crock of crap

Can you please give specific examples that can be proved by something other than rumor or opinion?

This lawsuit provides proof the company is at least legitimately "alleged" to have done so...

Where is recent proof of what you allege is legitimate?

That's the way blustering works - throw the flame out there and hope some idiot takes it and runs with it. Just make
sure it sounds plausible enough and you're fine, right?

Finally, I think the Flex pilots have woken up and see right through it. The rhetoric of the evil hoffa-esque union has run its course and the pilots realize it's not the same union anymore. Instead they are starting to see this is the Teamsters 1108 who have negotiated 2 awesome fractional CBAs (one for great $$, one with 35% pay gains and great work rules) and can get them something similar.

This lawsuit has management's goose cooked and you know it. I expect we'll be seeing a few more of the desperate busting tactics come out now.

 

[flex*wife]

. "At Flexjet, our loyalty is to our employees, and we do not believe this lawsuit takes into account our company's heritage and history of honoring and protecting our family of pilots who have industry leading compensation and work rules," said Flexjet Chairman, Kenn Ricci.

Is this a Freudian slip? Are you admitting you have turned your back on the Flight Options pilots that worked hard to get you to where you are today?

I think you're right. I also wonder how his executives will feel to realize Kenn Ricci believes their work at Flight Options is sub standard? After all, his statement essentially says he had to "buy" success to lead the industry.

The best thing about Flight Options is their pilots. Kenn Ricci has proven through them that a union has actually helped his company not hurt it. Yet he continues to trash the very people who've made his ability to expand possible.

His statement made me want to vomit. It's a self serving pack of lies. Just to be clear:

1.) He personally is not responsible for any of the positive heritage and history of Flexjet and is instituting policies that dismantle it.

2.) He has already said, in writing, that he does not think Flexjet pilots deserve what they are already getting.

As usual, the press didn't do their homework.

 

[1folinepilot]

Can you please give specific examples that can be proved by something other than rumor or opinion?

This lawsuit provides proof the company is at least legitimately "alleged" to have done so...

Where is recent proof of what you allege is legitimate?

That's the way blustering works - throw the flame out there and hope some idiot takes it and runs with it. Just make
sure it sounds plausible enough and you're fine, right?

Finally, I think the Flex pilots have woken up and see right through it. The rhetoric of the evil hoffa-esque union has run its course and the pilots realize it's not the same union anymore. Instead they are starting to see this is the Teamsters 1108 who have negotiated 2 awesome fractional CBAs (one for great $$, one with 35% pay gains and great work rules) and can get them something similar.

This lawsuit has management's goose cooked and you know it. I expect we'll be seeing a few more of the desperate busting tactics come out now.

Ah Flex*Wife you make me laugh.

You stand up and cry foul when MGT fires a couple of pilots who were being disruptive and not doing their jobs, but you turn a blind eye to that small group of pilots when they harass other employees and threaten our careers?

Slinghoffa himself along with his crew were posting "SCAB lists" to intimidate guys to pay their back dues that they were promised at the beginning they were not required to pay.

His crew shotgunned guys in the back when they quit here to go to other jobs to prevent them from getting hired at a better job.

There is the 280 pound "Steward" who openly bullies anybody who doesn't follow and do what he says.

You have the Yo-Yo guy who purposely taunted his FO to the point the FO had to shut down the trip in fear of safety

You have the Chicken Little video and that associated line of blatant harassment that is being slung at a pilot who is speaking up just the same as the UNION speakers speak up blasting their beliefs.

You have the prison guard guy who refuses to shut up as he continually spews how bad this place is to everybody.

you have post after post after post of harassing slanderous comments being made about the Options pilots that transferred to Flex. This posts were made in an attempt to cause harm to those pilots who chose to leave.

One would have hoped that the old leadership and their little crew of imbeciles would have taken the hint to leave after being voted out over 3 to 1 but they still persist as an incurable cancer in the background destroying any chance of solidarity and future that we may have.

It would be KARMA to see the IBT1108 slapped with a lawsuit for their behavior.

 

[The Architect]

Is that "The New Kid"?

You stand up and cry foul when MGT fires a couple of pilots who were being disruptive and not doing their jobs...

They certainly weren't disruptive and definitely WERE doing their jobs as employees. Unless you consider "disruptive" as exercising their rights under Federal Law, the RLA.

you have post after post after post of harassing slanderous comments being made about the Options pilots that transferred to Flex.

It is only slanderous if it's not true.

It would be KARMA to see the IBT1108 slapped with a lawsuit for their behavior.

That would be an interesting case. A lawsuit in Federal District Court against a party exercising their right under Federal Law. Again the RLA.

 

[NewFlex]

Great to hear from ya phyl!!!!!

 

[warlord19]

Re: flex*wife, she makes a lot of folks laugh...yuk yuk yuk.

Best,
WL

 

[SDCFI]

I'm not going to defend management at all, but I did find it pretty distasteful when GG from the POC came on yammer and straight up stated if we don't vote in IBT now when they file for singe carrier they will basically try to hose us with the seniority merger. I believe he used the phrase "do what's best for them." Does that qualify as a threat? What happened to "fair and equitable"?

 

[AeroBoy]

As usual, the press didn't do their homework.

Don't even try to blame this on the media. The press merely reports on the facts of what is known (allegations are not facts, btw). It is the union's job to persuade/convince Flexjet pilots to organize. Should the Flexjet pilots vote down union representation, then it is the union's fault for not making a compelling and/or clear enough case for pilots to cast a yes vote. IMO, your posts here don't appear to be working toward this goal, so you might want to think about this. Also, berating the press will certainly not help when the union needs the media to help disseminate its message. The press can be a friend or foe; don't willingly choose foe.

 

[flex*wife]

So ifolinepilot, I see you couldn't provide a link to anything definitive. Like I said, anything beyond rumor and speculation. Nice how you felt it was necessary to go back to Hoffa - it shows how many straws you're grabbing at.

I see the FUD is out in style today. You know you're hitting a nerve when so many see the need to attack your point of view. I'll just chalk that up to a good day for me.

Any other day our bank account is down 10+ grand I would be hard pressed to find the silver lining, but even with no bonus it just seems like an alright kinda Friday.

 

[dime line]

Ah Flex*Wife you make me laugh.

You stand up and cry foul when MGT fires a couple of pilots who were being disruptive and not doing their jobs, but you turn a blind eye to that small group of pilots when they harass other employees and threaten our careers?

Slinghoffa himself along with his crew were posting "SCAB lists" to intimidate guys to pay their back dues that they were promised at the beginning they were not required to pay.

His crew shotgunned guys in the back when they quit here to go to other jobs to prevent them from getting hired at a better job.

There is the 280 pound "Steward" who openly bullies anybody who doesn't follow and do what he says.

You have the Yo-Yo guy who purposely taunted his FO to the point the FO had to shut down the trip in fear of safety

You have the Chicken Little video and that associated line of blatant harassment that is being slung at a pilot who is speaking up just the same as the UNION speakers speak up blasting their beliefs.

You have the prison guard guy who refuses to shut up as he continually spews how bad this place is to everybody.

you have post after post after post of harassing slanderous comments being made about the Options pilots that transferred to Flex. This posts were made in an attempt to cause harm to those pilots who chose to leave.

One would have hoped that the old leadership and their little crew of imbeciles would have taken the hint to leave after being voted out over 3 to 1 but they still persist as an incurable cancer in the background destroying any chance of solidarity and future that we may have.

It would be KARMA to see the IBT1108 slapped with a lawsuit for their behavior.

Hmmmm... And then there is you

 

[flex*wife]

Don't even try to blame this on the media. The press merely reports on the facts of what is known (allegations are not facts, btw). It is the union's job to persuade/convince Flexjet pilots to organize. Should the Flexjet pilots vote down union representation, then it is the union's fault for not making a compelling and/or clear enough case for pilots to cast a yes vote. IMO, your posts here don't appear to be working toward this goal, so you might want to think about this. Also, berating the press will certainly not help when the union needs the media to help disseminate its message. The press can be a friend or foe; don't willingly choose foe.

Sorry Aero, I know you're media and I didn't mean this as a personal attack.

It is just very frustrating when you see something printed / quoted that is not just disingenuous but a lie.

Want to know what else is frustrating? Seeing others, but especially someone like you who should be impartial, berating me for having a vested interest in my family as it relates to my husband's career.

It is very frustrating to know I care enough to be interested and keep up with the goings on and actually be brave enough to post an opinion yet there are grown ass men who can't seem to care about anyone other than themselves or worse yet, remain uninterested and complacent.

 

[1folinepilot]

Hmmmm... And then there is you

LOL! And then there is you. I knew you would be chiming in.

 

[GlorifiedCabbie]

HA HA!!! What a double standard! The Teamsters and the 1108 openly harasses, threatens and bullies select pilots and company employees, but the 1108 runs to the lawyers the minute Management returns the favor and treats them in kind. What a crock of crap

So you basically are saying management harasses, threatens and bullies select pilots because the 1108 does. When did the 1108 terminate a pilot or stop their check with no reason given?

 

[flexible]

I'm not going to defend management at all, but I did find it pretty distasteful when GG from the POC came on yammer and straight up stated if we don't vote in IBT now when they file for singe carrier they will basically try to hose us with the seniority merger. I believe he used the phrase "do what's best for them." Does that qualify as a threat? What happened to "fair and equitable"?

I went back and read what you're referring to and I don't see the statement as a threat. It's common sense. If FLOPS is represented and we aren't, the merger will be harder than it has to be. Smarter to be one big happy family now then to wait until the blood turns cold. He argued getting a contract started first puts us at an advantage. You might not like the facts, but seems to me that's all that was given, not a threat. Are you sure it's just not union bias on your part? I know I've been guilty of it.

Do you want the lies and 1/2 truths of Ricci to make you feel good or the truth from guys like Gary who are at least willing to tell it to you straight even when they know the answer isn't going to be popular or win you over. I respect the fact he was willing to tell the truth even when it didn't cast the union in the best light and created discussion that he should have just avoided if he was trying just to convince us. I'm not happy about the union issue but those guys are not where the blame lies. I've flown with at least half of them and they are all great, trustworthy guys. I believe them when they say they want us to look at all sides of the issues before we decide. It still took the no-show bonus to seal my card though.

Just my two cents and prolly all its worth.

 

[dime line]

I went back and read what you're referring to and I don't see the statement as a threat. It's common sense. If FLOPS is represented and we aren't, the merger will be harder than it has to be. Smarter to be one big happy family now then to wait until the blood turns cold. He argued getting a contract started first puts us at an advantage. You might not like the facts, but seems to me that's all that was given, not a threat. Are you sure it's just not union bias on your part? I know I've been guilty of it.

Do you want the lies and 1/2 truths of Ricci to make you feel good or the truth from guys like Gary who are at least willing to tell it to you straight even when they know the answer isn't going to be popular or win you over. I respect the fact he was willing to tell the truth even when it didn't cast the union in the best light and created discussion that he should have just avoided if he was trying just to convince us. I'm not happy about the union issue but those guys are not where the blame lies. I've flown with at least half of them and they are all great, trustworthy guys. I believe them when they say they want us to look at all sides of the issues before we decide. It still took the no-show bonus to seal my card though.

Just my two cents and prolly all its worth.

you will not be stapled to the bottom, still join though to have a say in your future

 

[flexible]

you will not be stapled to the bottom, still join though to have a say in your future

No one ever said anyone was getting stapled. Why do you people on both sides lob the staple crap all the time? Give us in the middle guys a bit more credit of understanding the process.

Your response is a perfect reason no one wants to listen to debate. Here I was giving the union a fair shake and you had to come back at me like I'm an idiot who needs,your explanation and advice.

What was said is FLOPS and the IBT might fight harder for "their version of fair and equitable" if we were not actively pursuing the idea we are all the same pilot group. Not everyone wants to be the same pilot group. I know I don't after seeing what's come over. So what the poc said wasn't a threat it was just common sense no one wants to hear.

FJ has a chip on their shoulder that we're better than you and Ricci has said it from day one. Interesting part about us being better is we seem to be transitioning to all things FLOPS. That just makes us dislike you even more. It is what it is.

 

[dime line]

well after re-reading your post, I thought you had said something about a staple, so If my response is a "Perfect reason no one wants to listen to debate" then, wow, nothing in my post was negative in any way what so ever. sorry if you took it that way.
As for our geniuses that are coming over, I bet you have some rocket scientists over in your bunch as well, so don't lump all of us FLOPS pilots into your one stereotype.

And if you really have a "Chip on your shoulder" because Ricci said that your better than us, (did you really believe that) welcome to FLOPS, your one of us, I didn't buy you, Ricci did ( take your anger out on him and Canada for selling your company).

Maybe some of your pilots (hopefully not you) might want to think that a large number of pilots here are from RTA and we have been through exactly what your going thru and we don't want to see you get screwed, because we didn't like it one bit.
How is the new Wog going?

 

[Hawkered]

Ricci is one smart dude though to grow you guys that quickly and get Gulfstreams. Take your time to do it right as a pilot group and unify. And for crying out loud, stay with a National AFL-CIO union like the Teamsters.

 

[flexible]

well after re-reading your post, I thought you had said something about a staple, so If my response is a "Perfect reason no one wants to listen to debate" then, wow, nothing in my post was negative in any way what so ever. sorry if you took it that way.
As for our geniuses that are coming over, I bet you have some rocket scientists over in your bunch as well, so don't lump all of us FLOPS pilots into your one stereotype.

And if you really have a "Chip on your shoulder" because Ricci said that your better than us, (did you really believe that) welcome to FLOPS, your one of us, I didn't buy you, Ricci did ( take your anger out on him and Canada for selling your company).

Maybe some of your pilots (hopefully not you) might want to think that a large number of pilots here are from RTA and we have been through exactly what your going thru and we don't want to see you get screwed, because we didn't like it one bit.
How is the new Wog going?

Dude it's all good. My nerves are just a little frayed from all the accusations of what people did or didn't say and I read it like you were saying the organizers threatened a staple when they didn't.

I'm just saying give those of us in the middle enough credit to decipher the BS and understand the process, even when it doesn't favor unionizing. I respect the organizers and pretty sure they're the only people who have not lied even when they prolly should have. Management has lied, the transfers have lied, the Teamsters have lied but they've been stand-up and that says a lot about them but not enough. I consider several of them friends but I'm not just going to follow their lead without looking at all the facts.

My take is 90% are agreed we need something but the majority aren't sure this the way to go. Seriously, I've talked with only 4 or 5 people that oppose unionization in any form. Half the guys I fly with want something but not this. Most strongly favor in house or ALPA. I know that ship sailed, you prolly know it too but 1/2 of our pilot group is still carping on it. I'm complacent on it being the IBT. Not thrilled but realize they can't be worse than Ken Ricci.

You mention wogs. That was a wake up call. We are turning into FLOPS, not the other way around. That's where the shoulder chip comes in. That and the bonus swayed me over. My major concern is now or later. I'm leaning toward the argument now is better but wonder if we're not just adding extra steps unnecessarily.

 

[Imissmypilot]

I got to wondering about 1folinepilot aka old Phil aka Chicken Little and thought since we've all been warned KR is sparing no expense to find out the identities of pro union posters here on flight info that it would he fair play to remind Kenn about some statements he's made about Kenn in the past.

Seriously, it doesn't get more comical than ego driven pilots who forget their past. Yes the formerly pro union, sour graped after he demanded downgrades and then ends up losing in the rules he argued for (the real reason he hates the union), citation air decimating ass turned flex transfer... yep all in the history and no way to deny it.

I think you're a prophet in disquise. Only you would know what it's like to fellate Kenn Ricci.

Enjoy this little exchange. Do yourself a favor chicken and realize for every threatening anonymous email you send out, the more coals will get heaped on your fire. Yeah, people are also aware of those little gems. Nice try with the impartiality but I saw right through it.

Ricci is already making changes.

Some note worthy points for pilots

- No more training contracts
- no more crew rot at FBO's
-crew eat what they want and when. (company pays)
-dedicated crewing of aircraft (maybe?)
-he will be sitting in on negotiations to get them done as soon as possible
-acquisition of another company
-adding another type to fleet
-bad horoscope schedule ( believe it or not its back again)
-making the pilots happy who will then make the PAX happy.

I am cautiously optimistic but, still need it all in writing in a contract.

Essentially Ricci just stated that he is here to save the day and for everybody to trust him. I say put it in writing! Give me a contract! Without it, its just like picking up a drunk chick at a bar and telling her "Trust me and keep going baby, I won't cum in your mouth" (-:

Oh how the roles are reversed. Jetwash was willing to give Kenn a chance and learned real quick the error of his ways.

1folinepilot (chicken little) decided to give turning tricks as the best way to advance his career since sorry ass stick skills were never gonna get him far.

I don't think I can sleep tonight with all the laughter going on in my head.

 

[jetwash]

I got to wondering about 1folinepilot aka old Phil aka Chicken Little and thought since we've all been warned KR is sparing no expense to find out the identities of pro union posters here on flight info that it would he fair play to remind Kenn about some statements he's made about Kenn in the past.

Seriously, it doesn't get more comical than ego driven pilots who forget their past. Yes the formerly pro union, sour graped after he demanded downgrades and then ends up losing in the rules he argued for (the real reason he hates the union), citation air decimating ass turned flex transfer... yep all in the history and no way to deny it.

I think you're a prophet in disquise. Only you would know what it's like to fellate Kenn Ricci.

Enjoy this little exchange. Do yourself a favor chicken and realize for every threatening anonymous email you send out, the more coals will get heaped on your fire. Yeah, people are also aware of those little gems. Nice try with the impartiality but I saw right through it.


Oh how the roles are reversed. Jetwash was willing to give Kenn a chance and learned real quick the error of his ways.

1folinepilot (chicken little) decided to give turning tricks as the best way to advance his career since sorry ass stick skills were never gonna get him far.

I don't think I can sleep tonight with all the laughter going on in my head.

I think you quoted someone else as me.......

I wrote " Ricci is already making changes"



The the rest was written by someone else who quoted me.

 

[AeroBoy]

It is just very frustrating when you see something printed / quoted that is not just disingenuous but a lie.

Want to know what else is frustrating? Seeing others, but especially someone like you who should be impartial, berating me for having a vested interest in my family as it relates to my husband's career.

Unless I have solid proof, I can't determine whether a quote is disingenuous or an outright lie. The only thing that can be done is to make sure both sides get their say.

Also, I didn't berate you for having an interest in this. All I said is that from where I sit, not all of your posts are helping to bring clarity or unity to the group. That's an observation, certainly not a berating. Hopefully you'll take that and learn from this comment so your input here is more directed and valuable to helping, not hurting, your husband's career.