Germanwings plane crashed intentionally by F/O

[freightdogfred]

But you're not flying for a 121 carrier, nor are you transporting passengers, correct?

You're way off base. This guy had graduated from a tough German college to even be accepted into the Lufthansa ab-initio program. And therein lies the flaw in your argument. He was no plumber, no tradesman but a college-degreed ab-initio pilot with less than 800 hrs TT. Quite obviously mentally unstable with no desire to be a professional pilot. Sad state of affairs and condolences to the families of those lost souls. A real black mark to our profession.

 

[freightdogfred]

Call me crazy, or call me old skool- but I believe in "payin your dues" be it flying freight, fighters, or flight instructing. Our way ensures that guys in the cockpit actually really want to be there.

 

[eaglesview]

The public views and pays pilots as if we're glorified bus drivers. We're now getting glorified bus drivers, with all of the requisite mental baggage, in this job. It's no longer a profession.

More than a few regional pilots with families are eligible for food stamps and far too many are employed without a four year degree. This is rapidly being turned into a trade, much like plumber or electrician rather than a skilled professional.

You are 100% correct re four year degree. A profession not a trade.

 

[Ty Webb]

This kid's college degree didn't prevent this tragedy from happening....but paying his dues over the years, like we did, might have. If he had been an instructor, cargo, regional or charter pilot for a number of years, someone might have picked up on his instability. At 600 hours, he wouldn't even have qualified to fly canceled checks in a Cessna 210.

 

[Andy]

You're way off base. This guy had graduated from a tough German college to even be accepted into the Lufthansa ab-initio program. And therein lies the flaw in your argument. He was no plumber, no tradesman but a college-degreed ab-initio pilot with less than 800 hrs TT. Quite obviously mentally unstable with no desire to be a professional pilot. Sad state of affairs and condolences to the families of those lost souls. A real black mark to our profession.

But he would never have been flying 121 in the US with 800 hours.

I don't know how you or anyone else thinks that we're going to be viewed as more than bus drivers without requiring a college degree. "Sure, it's a hard job, but you don't have to be educated to do it". Great. All I need to know is how to apply for foodstamps.
Low barriers to entry = low wages.

 

[Andy]

This kid's college degree didn't prevent this tragedy from happening....but paying his dues over the years, like we did, might have. If he had been an instructor, cargo, regional or charter pilot for a number of years, someone might have picked up on his instability. At 600 hours, he wouldn't even have qualified to fly canceled checks in a Cessna 210.

Correct.
Or mental instability may manifest itself in some while in college. A college degree isn't going to be a great screen for mental instability, but it raises the standards enough to weed out some who would reflect poorly on the pilot community.

And here's another problem. We may see mental health screenings in the future - how many professions have to go through mental health checks for licensing? Do other professions require no antidepressants for licensing? I have my doubts, but I'm sure someone will chime in.

I haven't checked to which drugs for depression pilots are allowed to take and still fly, but I suspect that the answer's nothing. Compare that with a practicing doctor on Lexipro: http://blogs.aafp.org/cfr/freshperspectives/entry/overcoming_the_stigma_of_mental

 

[Av8rPHX]

Law enforcement requires mental health screening, and some departments dont even require degrees. They pay your training costs too.

 

[freightdogfred]

But he would never have been flying 121 in the US with 800 hours.

I don't know how you or anyone else thinks that we're going to be viewed as more than bus drivers without requiring a college degree.

I don't know how you got a college degree without being able to read. THE LUNATIC HAD A COLLEGE DEGREE. The more glaring aspect of this tragedy is his low flight time IMHO. To me a "professional pilot" is one who's been in the business, flying airplanes. Not hanging out in a frat house talking about it.

 

[sperfly]

College is way overrated.

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

Last I heard, antidepressants are allowed, but there are guidelines.
Airman must be off duty for a 6 months evaluation period while on the drugs.
Then there is a psych screening, possibly more prior to a medical being approved.

There are AME's that handle these types of cases, and not all airmen qualify.

As for the college degree, I'd feel safer with someone that had a couple thousand hours prior to that airline job. Degree or no degree.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I think he means having a stewardess come into the cockpit when a crewmember vacates for any reason

This policy is not in place to prevent the crew member left behind from committing mass murder, this policy is in place because the airlines in the US are too cheap to equip the A/C's with security cameras..., the purpose of the C/A on the flight deck is to look through the peep hole and make sure the pilot returning is alone.

Many companies around the world use security cameras thus the procedure is not required....!

Think about it.., if this guy's intention was to do this, what's to prevent him from grabbing the ax and knocking the C/A out..! His intention was to KILL everyone, what difference would have made 110 pound girl on the flight deck..!

 

[HowardBorden]

This policy is not in place to prevent the crew member left behind from committing mass murder, this policy is in place because the airlines in the US are too cheap to equip the A/C's with security cameras..., the purpose of the C/A on the flight deck is to look through the peep hole and make sure the pilot returning is alone.

I think your assertion is absolutely incorrect.

When cockpit doors became hardened, the presence of another person in the cockpit was to ensure that if the remaining flight crew member became incapacitated, there would be someone on the flight deck to open the door in the case of emergency.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Call me crazy, or call me old skool- but I believe in "payin your dues" be it flying freight, fighters, or flight instructing. Our way ensures that guys in the cockpit actually really want to be there.

^^^^^^^^^^
THIS

Andy, you are so far off base and clueless on this one it's best to just let it go.

 

[crxpilot]

Unfortunately, there will always be a loophole one way or another. Just about every profession has one, one way or another. The last line of defense is trust of your employees. If they go insane, at some level they can probably accomplish their last cowardly act. Ie; soldier throwing a grenade in the tent, postal worker going "postal", pilot crashing the plane. Fortunately these incidents are RARE, so hopefully cooler heads will prevail and life goes on. Unfortunately, not for those on the Germanwings flight.

 

[Andy]

Andy, you are so far off base and clueless on this one it's best to just let it go.

I've already stated that a college degree requirement isn't a psych screen; it's about making sure that pay erosion stops. If you don't have a college degree, wages will eventually erode to the point where the entire payscale is commensurate with long haul truck drivers. With that comes erosion in the quality of pilots.

If you think that a non-degreed pilot who's being paid $30K/yr as a guppy captain is a good thing (and the FO making $18K/yr), fine. I would expect that there will be more of this type of issue with that type of workforce because the quality of the workforce would deteriorate.

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

College is way overrated.

All this time trolling on here for sympathy over three posts about how you are such a great pilot without a degree is time wasted while some of you without could have been working online to get one. I don't make the rules but I put on the uni and played under them.

 

[SENECAII]

College only means the pilot likely knows how to hold his liquor during layovers.

 

[PCL_128]

I've already stated that a college degree requirement isn't a psych screen; it's about making sure that pay erosion stops. If you don't have a college degree, wages will eventually erode to the point where the entire payscale is commensurate with long haul truck drivers. With that comes erosion in the quality of pilots.

If you think that a non-degreed pilot who's being paid $30K/yr as a guppy captain is a good thing (and the FO making $18K/yr), fine. I would expect that there will be more of this type of issue with that type of workforce because the quality of the workforce would deteriorate.

So you think that your college degree makes you immune to clinical depression?

I'm fully supportive of the idea of requiring a college degree to drive up wages, but it has absolutely nothing to do with this accident, and it's actually a bit offensive that you would try to tie them together.

 

[pilotyip]

In the US we have to report all visits to Doctors. With what has been reported on this guy there is a good chance, depending upon the AME, that this guy would not be issued a medical.

BTW: The college degree has nothing to do with this. The only place I have seen the college degree make a big uniform difference in a pilot is an Academy graduate. The rest colleges are all over the board. Some the finest mentors, leaders and gifted sticks I flew in Vietnam were Navy Nav Cads, pilots who did not have college degrees.

 

[DUBLINFLYER]

CNN reported(I know its CNN) this morning that police found a sick note for the pilot from his doctor stating that said he was unfit to fly. He ignored the letter.