Germanwings plane crashed intentionally by F/O

[SWA Bubba]

This is unbelievable.

http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-germanwings-plane-crash-20150326-story.html

 

[SpauldingSmails]

...but not unprecedented. Still, sad and crazy.

 

[Av8rPHX]

......

 

[Dornier 335]

If Europe had adopted the system we have here in the US this *might* have been prevented.

 

[RT8VA]

What system is that?

 

[Av8rPHX]

I think he means having a stewardess come into the cockpit when a crewmember vacates for any reason

 

[RT8VA]

That isn't a US policy we dont do that on every fleet type.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Redacted......

 

[gutshotdraw]

Are we going to find a jihadi background on this guy or just your garden variety nutbaggery?

 

[Andy]

The public views and pays pilots as if we're glorified bus drivers. We're now getting glorified bus drivers, with all of the requisite mental baggage, in this job. It's no longer a profession.

More than a few regional pilots with families are eligible for food stamps and far too many are employed without a four year degree. This is rapidly being turned into a trade, much like plumber or electrician rather than a skilled professional.

 

[180ToTheMarker]

Are we going to find a jihadi background on this guy or just your garden variety nutbaggery?

Nah, those jihadi are peaceful right?

 

[Nindiri]

I see psych evals as part of our FAA medical exam in the future. Wonderful. :erm:

 

[skybert]

As an ATP with 20+ years in the cockpit,how exactly does a four year degree prevent this??

 

[Andy]

As an ATP with 20+ years in the cockpit,how exactly does a four year degree prevent this??

Profession vs trade. If you want this to be a profession, fill the educational square. If you want this to be a low barrier to entry trade (glorified bus driver), no need for a college degree.

 

[skybert]

Guess I'll somehow ply the airways without my degree.

 

[Erlanger]

Hey, here's a brilliant idea; we have jumpseats, so lets put a 3rd pilot in all cockpits including the RJs to prevent this from happening again. How do you become an "expert"?
http://news.yahoo.com/safety-experts-alps-crash-dramatizes-third-pilot-170528815--politics.html

 

[SpauldingSmails]

I see psych evals as part of our FAA medical exam in the future. Wonderful. :erm:

I'm guessing they'll just watch our dreams during our next sleep study.

 

[dustrpilot]

Kinda makes the security check point for pilots meaningless now.

 

[pilot772]

In the span of just over two weeks the public narrative has gone from reducing to one pilot to increasing to 3. Lets split the difference

 

[Andy]

Guess I'll somehow ply the airways without my degree.

But you're not flying for a 121 carrier, nor are you transporting passengers, correct?

 

[freightdogfred]

But you're not flying for a 121 carrier, nor are you transporting passengers, correct?

You're way off base. This guy had graduated from a tough German college to even be accepted into the Lufthansa ab-initio program. And therein lies the flaw in your argument. He was no plumber, no tradesman but a college-degreed ab-initio pilot with less than 800 hrs TT. Quite obviously mentally unstable with no desire to be a professional pilot. Sad state of affairs and condolences to the families of those lost souls. A real black mark to our profession.

 

[freightdogfred]

Call me crazy, or call me old skool- but I believe in "payin your dues" be it flying freight, fighters, or flight instructing. Our way ensures that guys in the cockpit actually really want to be there.

 

[eaglesview]

The public views and pays pilots as if we're glorified bus drivers. We're now getting glorified bus drivers, with all of the requisite mental baggage, in this job. It's no longer a profession.

More than a few regional pilots with families are eligible for food stamps and far too many are employed without a four year degree. This is rapidly being turned into a trade, much like plumber or electrician rather than a skilled professional.

You are 100% correct re four year degree. A profession not a trade.

 

[Ty Webb]

This kid's college degree didn't prevent this tragedy from happening....but paying his dues over the years, like we did, might have. If he had been an instructor, cargo, regional or charter pilot for a number of years, someone might have picked up on his instability. At 600 hours, he wouldn't even have qualified to fly canceled checks in a Cessna 210.

 

[Andy]

You're way off base. This guy had graduated from a tough German college to even be accepted into the Lufthansa ab-initio program. And therein lies the flaw in your argument. He was no plumber, no tradesman but a college-degreed ab-initio pilot with less than 800 hrs TT. Quite obviously mentally unstable with no desire to be a professional pilot. Sad state of affairs and condolences to the families of those lost souls. A real black mark to our profession.

But he would never have been flying 121 in the US with 800 hours.

I don't know how you or anyone else thinks that we're going to be viewed as more than bus drivers without requiring a college degree. "Sure, it's a hard job, but you don't have to be educated to do it". Great. All I need to know is how to apply for foodstamps.
Low barriers to entry = low wages.

 

[Andy]

This kid's college degree didn't prevent this tragedy from happening....but paying his dues over the years, like we did, might have. If he had been an instructor, cargo, regional or charter pilot for a number of years, someone might have picked up on his instability. At 600 hours, he wouldn't even have qualified to fly canceled checks in a Cessna 210.

Correct.
Or mental instability may manifest itself in some while in college. A college degree isn't going to be a great screen for mental instability, but it raises the standards enough to weed out some who would reflect poorly on the pilot community.

And here's another problem. We may see mental health screenings in the future - how many professions have to go through mental health checks for licensing? Do other professions require no antidepressants for licensing? I have my doubts, but I'm sure someone will chime in.

I haven't checked to which drugs for depression pilots are allowed to take and still fly, but I suspect that the answer's nothing. Compare that with a practicing doctor on Lexipro: http://blogs.aafp.org/cfr/freshperspectives/entry/overcoming_the_stigma_of_mental

 

[Av8rPHX]

Law enforcement requires mental health screening, and some departments dont even require degrees. They pay your training costs too.

 

[freightdogfred]

But he would never have been flying 121 in the US with 800 hours.

I don't know how you or anyone else thinks that we're going to be viewed as more than bus drivers without requiring a college degree.

I don't know how you got a college degree without being able to read. THE LUNATIC HAD A COLLEGE DEGREE. The more glaring aspect of this tragedy is his low flight time IMHO. To me a "professional pilot" is one who's been in the business, flying airplanes. Not hanging out in a frat house talking about it.

 

[sperfly]

College is way overrated.

 

[SpyFlysDOTs]

Last I heard, antidepressants are allowed, but there are guidelines.
Airman must be off duty for a 6 months evaluation period while on the drugs.
Then there is a psych screening, possibly more prior to a medical being approved.

There are AME's that handle these types of cases, and not all airmen qualify.

As for the college degree, I'd feel safer with someone that had a couple thousand hours prior to that airline job. Degree or no degree.