Associates degree

[gringo]

You just made a great argument about the ridiculous notion of a degree requirement. Doesn't matter what the degree is on, and it doesn't matter the quality of the school..., as long as you tick the box..! LOL

You just pointed out your continued insistence that this argument has anything to do with "piloting skills" in reference to "a degree", which constitutes a total complete failure on your behalf to understand what the argument is even about.

Hiring is done by HR. They decided that you need a degree to be eligible. It's the simplest concept in the world, yet you're insisting into making the argument into something it's not.

Nobody ever said a degree makes you a better pilot. You can go ahead and keep sticking your head up your but and insist that that is in fact the argument, but it never has been, and never will be.

HR does the hiring these days, and the HR gods have long ago decided that you need a degree. Period. End of story.

Get the degree and get the job. Or don't get the degree, refuse to play the game, don't get the job and remain bitter about it because you hate the player, not the game.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

You just pointed out your continued insistence that this argument has anything to do with "piloting skills" in reference to "a degree", which constitutes a total complete failure on your behalf to understand what the argument is even about.

Hiring is done by HR. They decided that you need a degree to be eligible. It's the simplest concept in the world, yet you're insisting into making the argument into something it's not.

Nobody ever said a degree makes you a better pilot. You can go ahead and keep sticking your head up your but and insist that that is in fact the argument, but it never has been, and never will be.

HR does the hiring these days, and the HR gods have long ago decided that you need a degree. Period. End of story.

Get the degree and get the job. Or don't get the degree, refuse to play the game, don't get the job and remain bitter about it because you hate the player, not the game.

Spoken like a true college educated professional....!:laugh:

 

[gringo]

Spoken like a true college educated professional....!:laugh:

*sigh*

Your moniker suits you well. Have fun fighting your uphill battle.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

*sigh*

Your moniker suits you well. Have fun fighting your uphill battle.

I'm not the college educated individual making an argument at a junior high level..., but then again I wasn't expecting anything else from your community college degree..!

 

[gringo]

Spoken like a true gentleman, sir. Hats off to you.

To the OP, as you can see, there are varying opinions to whether you need a degree or not to fly at the Majors. Those stuck at third tier supplemental or overseas jobs will scream up and down an empty corridor all day and night that you don't need a degree to fly an airplane.

And they're right, as nobody was making that argument in the first place.

And as they sulk in the corner watching the world pass them by leaving them at said third-tier jobs, they'll still refuse to acknowledge the fact that a four year degree is not only a "check in the box" it's a REQUIRED "check in the box" to play with the big boys back home.

You posted this question in the Majors section. It's safe to assume you want to fly for a Major.

You do not want to fly for a National.

You don't want to fly for a supplemental cargo carrier.

You don't want to go overseas and deal with that nonsense. It's not 2008 anymore.

You realized that it's 2015, the Majors are making a huge rebound, and you want in on the action. You need a four year degree. ANY degree. Get the degree and join in on the fun.

Or don't, and be miserable like some of the guys that refuse to get it here.

You're halfway there. Two more years and you're golden.

Don't let the window lickers distract you. There's a lot of them.

 

[pilotyip]

All that said, put yourself in the position of HR. You are hiring for a position....any position. if you had two people who were otherwise equal, but one had a degree and one did not, who would you hire?

The one who scored highest on my placement test of basic intelligence. It is very predictive of success and I can tell you it has nothing to do with a having a college degree, except if you graduated from a service academy. They all score real high.

Now I agree times have changed. Robert Lovett was WWII Asst Sec of War for Air. He may have saved the US in WWII. He showed we needed quantity, not quality. We will need 100K pilots per year, we will not get that many physically qualified college educated pilots. He said the college was not needed to fly an airplane, so he devised a test to identify those traits and knowledge levels needed to be successful in pilot training. He found that many college educated people could not pass this test, but many high school graduates could. These 19 year old pilots proved their worth all over the globe, flying equipment under conditions that would test almost all of us on this board.

 

[DCAA320]

The one who scored highest on my placement test of basic intelligence. It is very predictive of success and I can tell you it has nothing to do with a having a college degree, except if you graduated from a service academy. They all score real high.

Now I agree times have changed. Robert Lovett was WWII Asst Sec of War for Air. He may have saved the US in WWII. He showed we needed quantity, not quality. We will need 100K pilots per year, we will not get that many physically qualified college educated pilots. He said the college was not needed to fly an airplane, so he devised a test to identify those traits and knowledge levels needed to be successful in pilot training. He found that many college educated people could not pass this test, but many high school graduates could. These 19 year old pilots proved their worth all over the globe, flying equipment under conditions that would test almost all of us on this board.

STFU

You talk about exceptions and do a disservice to those looking to get to a major. Your rhetoric is old.

If you want to go to a major, get a 4 year degree, not that hard, that's what they want.

Once again, STFU

 

[gringo]

Robert Lovett was WWII Asst Sec of War for Air. He may have saved the US in WWII.

Cool story, bro. And I'm sure, should the Nips or the Jerrys ever rear their ugly heads around these parts the Army Air Corps will give em a good 'ol what for and we'll all be Johnny on the spot when we get the telegram from Western Union to join up to beat back the Axis.

Until then, however, United, Delta and American all require a degree to join the party. With very few exceptions.

Btw, you might not have heard, but in regards to a previous post of yours, CAL and NWA no longer exist. Pretty sure the original Eastern and Pan Am you won't find, neither.

Also, I hate to break this news to you, as you apparently just stepped out of a time warp, but Hitler is dead. Also dead? Tojo. Stalin too. (Spoiler alert! He turned out to be a bad guy too.)

 

[Andy]

United used to require an Associates Degree, don't know if they still do. While the broken record may say you don't need a degree, the fifty guys with comparable experience applying for one job need to be whittled down somehow. Education and commitment are just two ways to do this.

United requires a four year degree. You can apply, but the HR computer will mark the applicant as not qualified and the application will never be seen by a human.
It says 'preferred' on the United website, but no current application will ever get past the computer without a 4 year degree.

And I'd bet it's the same at the rest of the majors.

One can debate whether or not this is a valid screening requirement or reminisce about days past but in today's world you need a 4 year degree to even have a human look at your application. The days of flying for a major without a 4 year degree are gone.

Bottom line: no, an associates degree won't cut it at the majors.

 

[slaquer5]

The one who scored highest on my placement test of basic intelligence. It is very predictive of success and I can tell you it has nothing to do with a having a college degree, except if you graduated from a service academy. They all score real high.

Now I agree times have changed. Robert Lovett was WWII Asst Sec of War for Air. He may have saved the US in WWII. He showed we needed quantity, not quality. We will need 100K pilots per year, we will not get that many physically qualified college educated pilots. He said the college was not needed to fly an airplane, so he devised a test to identify those traits and knowledge levels needed to be successful in pilot training. He found that many college educated people could not pass this test, but many high school graduates could. These 19 year old pilots proved their worth all over the globe, flying equipment under conditions that would test almost all of us on this board.

That's great

One problem , you don't do the hiring for any of the majors . For that matter anywhere anyone to stay


Your analogy, is like me saying I like to hire the hot blondes at my flight school.
Your ego is really coming out when you are comparing yourself to a Major Airline hiring process . I think there is a word for what you are . Actually it could be 2 words .

 

[learflyer]

Spoken like a true gentleman, sir. Hats off to you.

To the OP, as you can see, there are varying opinions to whether you need a degree or not to fly at the Majors. Those stuck at third tier supplemental or overseas jobs will scream up and down an empty corridor all day and night that you don't need a degree to fly an airplane.

And they're right, as nobody was making that argument in the first place.

And as they sulk in the corner watching the world pass them by leaving them at said third-tier jobs, they'll still refuse to acknowledge the fact that a four year degree is not only a "check in the box" it's a REQUIRED "check in the box" to play with the big boys back home.

You posted this question in the Majors section. It's safe to assume you want to fly for a Major.

You do not want to fly for a National.

You don't want to fly for a supplemental cargo carrier.

You don't want to go overseas and deal with that nonsense. It's not 2008 anymore.

You realized that it's 2015, the Majors are making a huge rebound, and you want in on the action. You need a four year degree. ANY degree. Get the degree and join in on the fun.

Or don't, and be miserable like some of the guys that refuse to get it here.

You're halfway there. Two more years and you're golden.

Don't let the window lickers distract you. There's a lot of them.

Hey. Schoolboy. "And" is an interjection. A connector between two words, phrases, and clauses. You cannot begin a sentence with an interjection.

Oh and show some respect to YIP. Good guy.

 

[pilotyip]

That's great

One problem , you don't do the hiring for any of the majors . For that matter anywhere anyone to stay

Your analogy, is like me saying I like to hire the hot blondes at my flight school.
Your ego is really coming out when you are comparing yourself to a Major Airline hiring process . I think there is a word for what you are . Actually it could be 2 words .

Only answering the question as addressed to me, nothing else sir. True I am not a major recruiter, but I recruit those future major pilots into their first exposure to 121 flying to get the experience to go to the next step. I want pilots who succeed in training. The college degree has nothing to do with that. That is why the screening testing.

I agree if you want to get on at a major you need a degree. You don't have to know anything that would lead to a job any where out side of the cockpit. If the college degree is so valuable why are 47% of the college grads working in places like Starbucks at $30k/yr and a welder is making 100K/yr?

Oh and show some respect to YIP. Good guy.

Thank you is spite of my Ego and two-word description whatever it might be

STFU

You talk about exceptions and do a disservice to those looking to get to a major. Your rhetoric is old.

If you want to go to a major, get a 4 year degree, not that hard, that's what they want.

Once again, STFU

Very professional response. You mean 60 credits for life experience? With 30 credits transferred from a community college followed by 30 credits of on-line no classroom training is a valuable experience. But going through Army Flight Training is not a valuable experience if you are not a college graduate. Doesn't sound that reasonable to me.

As stated many times, this is a FI tradition. Someone posts something about a college degree and flying (this thread) then someone posts "Oh oh watch out here comes pilotyip". I think I might disappoint a few posters if I did not chime in with my rant.

Then a few very well informed people who are an authority on all issues pertaining to life chime in and start the volleys back and forth. Then comes the picture of the dead horse being beaten and the fun is over.

It has been an education process over the years, now most people will admit the degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane, they will admit it is not really proof of superior knowledge, and I now admit it could be a shop stopper in the last step of a career. But it is not needed until the last step, my advice which I have seen many succeed at is, start flying out of high school, do a on-line degree, build time while completing your degree. You do not need to spend $100K in a college aviation program to get that degree.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Hey. Schoolboy. "And" is an interjection. A connector between two words, phrases, and clauses. You cannot begin a sentence with an interjection.

Oh and show some respect to YIP. Good guy.

Actually, I believe the word you were looking for is "conjunction," not "interjection." :0

Bubba

 

[gringo]

Hey. Schoolboy. "And" is an interjection. A connector between two words, phrases, and clauses. You cannot begin a sentence with an interjection.

Oh and show some respect to YIP. Good guy.

As already pointed out, "and" is a conjunction. And it it perfectly fine to start a sentence with a conjunction.

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/can-i-start-a-sentence-with-a-conjunction

http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/conjunctions.htm

No silver star for you, now get back into class.

As for Yip and his terrible advice?

Most people go to college (not even one of those fancy $100k ones he's got such a hard on for) right out of high school, when they're young, have no responsibilities and have time on their hands.

The ones that take Yip's awful advice skip college until later. Later when they're flying for a regional, supporting a family, working overtime to make ends meet, barely enough time to breathe, but this, this is the time they should now focus on getting that degree. While juggling kids and a wife and a stagnant career and mortgages and life.

Of course it can be done, as many are doing it this way even as I type. They're sitting in their hotel room, exhausted, trying to hang out the report that's due, wondering why the h3ll they didn't do the degree when they had time and opportunity.

In the meanwhile, guys who took the traditional route and got their degree first before flying, are now in the same exact spot, only we're moving up and getting picked up by the Legacies while Captain Regional is still stuck in his hotel room with 3 more years to go before he finally finishes.

Yeah, solid advice.

 

[PCL_128]

I think I might disappoint a few posters if I did not chime in with my rant.

No you wouldn't. Please give it a try.

my advice which I have seen many succeed at is, start flying out of high school, do a on-line degree, build time while completing your degree. You do not need to spend $100K in a college aviation program to get that degree.

Well, at least you finally gave some good advice.

 

[pilotyip]

As for Yip and his terrible advice? The ones that take Yip's awful advice skip college until later.

Nope not bad advice I have seen too many people succeed following this advice.

We hired a 20 year old pilot a few years ago, 1 year of on-line college credit completed, started working the ramp pumping gas in high school, got hired hauling cargo in SA-227 as an F/O, at 18, got promoted to 208 Capt. at age 20, he has 1600 TT, 1100 MEL, 350 Turbine PIC, 1450 total turbine, he is started as a DA-20 F/O at $33K, he was a DA-20 Capt. the day he turned 23, he had his degree completed by the time he was 26 years old. At that time he had 5200 TT, 4700 MEL, 5050 Turbine, 3200 hours 121 time, 1200 121 Turbo Jet PIC. He had his on-line BS degree in Aviation Management that our company helped pay for through the tuition assistance program, and no debt. Free college. He will be interviewing with the 4 or 5 year traditional college graduate for his first airline job, The traditional 4 yr. degree guy who has TT 1200 350 MEL 15 Turbine. Who is the more competitive?

BTW: He turned down DAL to get a fortune 5 company job that pays much better than DAL

Well, at least you finally gave some good advice.

Even my FI nemesis agrees with me

 

[Dumb Pilot]

The "tick the box" crowd seems to think that people who don't agree with them are anti-education..., quite the opposite is true, I went all the way in my studies and so will my son that is starting to talk "pilot"

What I would like to see is some logic to the requirement, if the requirement would be to have a degree in a field related to science, physics, aeronautics..! Then by all means, I'm all about superior education that is related to the field that you will practice professionally..., but a requirement of a degree just for the sake of having one, doesn't really matter what the degree is on or where it was obtained.

There is simply no logic on that.

 

[slaquer5]

The "tick the box" crowd seems to think that people who don't agree with them are anti-education..., quite the opposite is true, I went all the way in my studies and so will my son that is starting to talk "pilot"

What I would like to see is some logic to the requirement, if the requirement would be to have a degree in a field related to science, physics, aeronautics..! Then by all means, I'm all about superior education that is related to the field that you will practice professionally..., but a requirement of a degree just for the sake of having one, doesn't really matter what the degree is on or where it was obtained.

There is simply no logic on that.

No one is saying that

I agree with pilotyip. It is what is is . They Majors use it as a score to get the interview

Hell, I am sure I wil get crucify for saying ,but PCL does not have a degree and he is ( in my opinion) one of the smartest people posting on FI.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

Smart and educated are two very different things...., I know a few people with masters that are as dumb as a bar stool. You just need to read some of the posts on this very thread from people that claim to have superior education.

 

[PCL_128]

Hell, I am sure I wil get crucify for saying ,but PCL does not have a degree and he is ( in my opinion) one of the smartest people posting on FI.

Thanks!

But in the interest of full disclosure, while I don't have the piece of paper, I do have a lot of college credit. I've just never finished it off.