Where is your $5000 bonus?

[MDWCrashPad]

Several airlines have begun offering signing bonus to go there. Gojet just began offering a $5000 bonus paid over a year. They have been in contract talks the last couple of years.

The bonuses are a violation of the contract that is in place. The contract specifies how pilots will be paid. Paying some pilots outside of the contract is a violation of the CBA even if you call it something else.

The pilot shortage will help to drive wages up but not if airlines can merely begin their own new compensation scale with new hires. Pilots will not look at the contracts when deciding which airline to go to they will look at the new hire bonus package. Airlines will lose their incentive to bargain in earnest with the current union representations because what will really be important in getting pilots will be their new hire package.

Why would Gojet want to finish their contract and give all 500 pilots a $5000 or more raise when it can simply offer the raise to the new hire pilots?

With the expiration of the Gojet contract a status quo requirement goes into effect, neither side can unilaterally change the terms of the employment. That includes giving a raise to certain parties.

Anyone wishing to see what the Supreme Court has said on the subject can look at http://www.leagle.com/decision/1976... TOLEDO SHORE LINE R. CO. v. UNITED TRANSP. U, and its progeny.

 

[JustaNumber]

Excellent point! The airlines are implementing a variation of the B-scale, the "A+" scale. Back in the mid-eighties, ALPA decided that fighting the creation of the B-scale concept (at United) was the hill they were ready to die on, as the tactic would effectively immediately destroy all pilot unity and over time destroy ultimate bargaining power. Here we are again, and the subject isn't even on ALPA's radar.

 

[wms]

That's because it's happening at regionals, not majors. ALPA supports the destruction of the regionals and will do nothing to strengthen any regional cause. Their view is that it will help the expansion of the majors, which most of us want. But those who never make the move for whatever reason, will be thrown under the bus; and ALPA doesn't care.

 

[maru657]

There are in effect two ALPA's, one with supports the money pits called the majors and another which pretends to support the rest. An old friend, a pioneer in airline labor relations wondered how any of this subset of pilots would ever be convinced to respect or honor a picket line at a major. Many of these pilots have far greater experience than the uasual Delta new hire and can only wonder at the hiring policies which condone this practice.

 

[jynxyjericho]

So gojets is represented by the local steel workers union last I heard. Alpa has no part of gojets. They refused representing them, as did teamsters aviation division

Anyway, continue blaming alpa. For gojeters, please let the local stl union know they need to get a first year lawyer to talk to a judge over breakfast to grant an injunction against illegal contract activities. It takes almost 10 minutes of work and no judge will say no. Right now your union, and probably your pilots, are complicit in its contract violation and I would expect nothing less from the gojetters.

 

[centralpilot]

So gojets is represented by the local steel workers union last I heard. Alpa has no part of gojets. They refused representing them, as did teamsters aviation division

Where did you hear that? Pretty sure they have been Teamsters since 2006, unless I missed a very recent change.

 

[Indy319FA]

Where did you hear that? Pretty sure they have been Teamsters since 2006, unless I missed a very recent change.

Teamsters Airline refused to represent them. They are represented by a different division of Teamsters.

 

[General Lee]

That's because it's happening at regionals, not majors. ALPA supports the destruction of the regionals and will do nothing to strengthen any regional cause. Their view is that it will help the expansion of the majors, which most of us want. But those who never make the move for whatever reason, will be thrown under the bus; and ALPA doesn't care.

ALPA has nothing to do with the economics of your airplanes. 50 seaters exploded when oil was cheaper, and now it isn't. Throw in new hiring and fatigue rules, a bad economy, and Consolidation that caused base closures or downsizing (MEM, CLE, etc) and you have a perfect storm that really affects your portion of this industry. Luckily, 15,000 pilots will retire within the next 10 years at the big 3. You just have to decide if you want to start over in the right seat of a mainline jet and give up your 4 weeks of vacation and weekends off, or ride your airline down with the ship. The sooner people realize this and apply and get hired, the sooner they will get back that QOL they want. When 3 people show up as newhires in a Regional class that had 30 people agree to start, that's a bad sign.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

There are in effect two ALPA's, one with supports the money pits called the majors and another which pretends to support the rest. An old friend, a pioneer in airline labor relations wondered how any of this subset of pilots would ever be convinced to respect or honor a picket line at a major. Many of these pilots have far greater experience than the uasual Delta new hire and can only wonder at the hiring policies which condone this practice.

Uhhhhhh, I remember after 9-11 when Comair was growing and DL started furloughing. The DALPA reps asked the Comair reps if some of the DL furloughees could go to the BOTTOM of the Comair list during the furlough, since Comair was growing thanks to DLs down sizing anyway. What was the Comair MEC's response? Only if DALPA allowed Comair to get more 70 seaters. Use furloughed pilots as pawns. The ASA guys did allow the furloughed guys to come in at the bottom of their list, and many ASA pilots were hired when hiring resumed in 08.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[jynxyjericho]

Where did you hear that? Pretty sure they have been Teamsters since 2006, unless I missed a very recent change.

Teamsters Airline refused to represent them. They are represented by a different division of Teamsters.

And the divison was originally the steel workers and sanitation local. Gojets pilots who headed up that abortion have done their best to embarass themselves at every opportunity presented.

Let them have it, I hope the local robs the pilots blind, they deserve it.

 

[PCL_128]

Several airlines have begun offering signing bonus to go there. Gojet just began offering a $5000 bonus paid over a year. They have been in contract talks the last couple of years.

The bonuses are a violation of the contract that is in place. The contract specifies how pilots will be paid. Paying some pilots outside of the contract is a violation of the CBA even if you call it something else.

The pilot shortage will help to drive wages up but not if airlines can merely begin their own new compensation scale with new hires. Pilots will not look at the contracts when deciding which airline to go to they will look at the new hire bonus package. Airlines will lose their incentive to bargain in earnest with the current union representations because what will really be important in getting pilots will be their new hire package.

Why would Gojet want to finish their contract and give all 500 pilots a $5000 or more raise when it can simply offer the raise to the new hire pilots?

With the expiration of the Gojet contract a status quo requirement goes into effect, neither side can unilaterally change the terms of the employment. That includes giving a raise to certain parties.

Anyone wishing to see what the Supreme Court has said on the subject can look at http://www.leagle.com/decision/1976... TOLEDO SHORE LINE R. CO. v. UNITED TRANSP. U, and its progeny.

Not sure how GoJet is doing it, but other airlines have gotten away with it by paying the signing bonus before the pilot is technically an employee. Show up for class, get handed a check, and then fill out your W-4 and become an official employee. The signing bonus is 1099 income, not wages. The CBA doesn't cover someone until he's employed in that craft and class.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Not sure how GoJet is doing it, but other airlines have gotten away with it by paying the signing bonus before the pilot is technically an employee. Show up for class, get handed a check, and then fill out your W-4 and become an official employee. The signing bonus is 1099 income, not wages. The CBA doesn't cover someone until he's employed in that craft and class.

In this case it's paid over time of employment. Caution: I may be misinformed. I would bet gojet union dogs are complicit, but I have no evidence, I simply and willfully chose to think the worst.

 

[Brasilia Pup]

Uhhhhhh, I remember after 9-11 when Comair was growing and DL started furloughing. The DALPA reps asked the Comair reps if some of the DL furloughees could go to the BOTTOM of the Comair list during the furlough, since Comair was growing thanks to DLs down sizing anyway. What was the Comair MEC's response? Only if DALPA allowed Comair to get more 70 seaters. Use furloughed pilots as pawns. The ASA guys did allow the furloughed guys to come in at the bottom of their list, and many ASA pilots were hired when hiring resumed in 08.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Bull******************** Flag! DALPA wanted to flowback to the TOP of the seniority list at Comair. Can't blame Comair for telling DALPA to take a hike.

 

[PCL_128]

That's just plain wrong. DALPA only wanted preferential slots at CMR at the bottom of the list. They never asked for a flow-back. The representative of the CMR MEC at that meeting said that they wouldn't support it unless DALPA gave up more scope so CMR could fly bigger airplanes.

 

[General Lee]

Bull******************** Flag! DALPA wanted to flowback to the TOP of the seniority list at Comair. Can't blame Comair for telling DALPA to take a hike.

Uhhhhhhhhh WRONG! You're an idiot! Where did the furloughed guys go at ASA? The bottom of their list. So, DALPA asked Comair to let guys go to the top of their list, and the bottom of the ASA list? Really? Wow.... And it appears you may be an ASA guy yourself? You obviously had no idea what was going on at the time.


Well, ask Ford and Lawson how that worked out for them...


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

That's just plain wrong. DALPA only wanted preferential slots at CMR at the bottom of the list. They never asked for a flow-back. The representative of the CMR MEC at that meeting said that they wouldn't support it unless DALPA gave up more scope so CMR could fly bigger airplanes.

Ohhhh Snap. Brasilia pup just shat his pants.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Freebrd]

That's just plain wrong. DALPA only wanted preferential slots at CMR at the bottom of the list. They never asked for a flow-back. The representative of the CMR MEC at that meeting said that they wouldn't support it unless DALPA gave up more scope so CMR could fly bigger airplanes.

Didn't the CMR MEC want the furloughed DAL pilots to give up their seniority at DAL too? Never did see the logic of that stupid request.

 

[PCL_128]

Didn't the CMR MEC want the furloughed DAL pilots to give up their seniority at DAL too? Never did see the logic of that stupid request.

Well, that was Comair management's policy for any furloughed pilot applying. The CMR MEC's position was basically that they supported their management's policy, but they would consider going to management and pushing for an exception if DALPA would loosen scope.

 

[Freebrd]

Thanks

 

[maru657]

That's just plain wrong. DALPA only wanted preferential slots at CMR at the bottom of the list. They never asked for a flow-back. The representative of the CMR MEC at that meeting said that they wouldn't support it unless DALPA gave up more scope so CMR could fly bigger airplanes.

Wrong, the pilots and members of the CMR MEC, couldn't see giving special treatment to DALPA,s pilots. After all, giving a position to a Delta pilot implied that Comair pilots would be given reciprocal treatment at Delta and the DALPA supported hiring policies at Delta would prevent that. Don't be surprised if the people you treat like second class citizens seem to occasionally resent it. If you don't get it, try striking. This is similier to what occurred between Frontier and United in 85.