Block building and PBS

[AirBoard]

I'd like to get some input on how other airlines with (200+ pilots per equip seat) are able to get their block built and issued in a timely manner. The reason....

Here at Air Canada we use PBS. Our largest equipment base is the YYZ 320 (270+ per seat). Our July blocks have yet to be released! Apparently the computer has been running since June 20th and no solution! They have some parameters they can tweak (open to 17days max, allow hourly blocking window -10 to +1 - that would be 72-83 hrs) but still nothing....

Bottomline they are having serious issues with very little communication from our sched committee. Do other airlines face this crap. Seniority will go our the window if they can't find a solution. Can't plan your life.

 

[Vingus]

Jetblue has PBS and the schedules take 3-4 days max to come out.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I suppose it depends on the PBS vendor, but one of the dilemmas that PBS faces is that in order to avoid making a junior pilot illegal, the senior pilot's choice may not be honored. If it is not permitted to do that it could build schedules and stop at the illegality.

 

[AirBoard]

AdOpt is the vendor. They are using their servers to run our bid because I guess we have reached the limitations of the program.

Priority bid system would be much easier.

 

[Dan Roman]

We (Hawaiian) get the next month's pairings on about the 7th. Bids open, we have a couple practice runs and the Captain bids close 8am on the 13th. Bids are out by 14th in the PM. The F/O bids close 8am on the 15th.
We've had PBS for over 20 years, I don't think anyone would want to go back to just bidding for hard lines. PBS allows you to get some, if not all the days off you want coupled with the type of trips you want.
Works great here. Not sure why some seem so resistant to it?

 

[AirBoard]

We finally got out blocks. Took 6 days of a continuous run. They had to open up our hard 16 day max to 17 and our designated block hrs to -9 to +1.

These are big hour swings. Now we have 270 blocks to run and our smaller bases have no problems. Just YYZ 320 FO.

PBS gives you a lot of flexibility but I've seen some weird things too. I've bid for some unproductive pairings to just see them go junior! The reasoning being it needs to spread things out - no one gives good answers. Too many moving parts.

Canned blocks suck but priority system is black and white. Although I think the jr pilots could really get screwed with a priority system.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Works great here. Not sure why some seem so resistant to it?

The satisfaction with PBS depends on your seniority and understanding of how it works. If you're junior you won't like it because it doesn't give you what you want and if you are senior you don't like it because you still try to change channels on the microwave! That's two blocks that resist it, but most folks see that it really is a convenient system that is only as good as your contract.

 

[Dan Roman]

I agree knowing how to bid is really important. My take is to keep it fairly simple. As you said, expecting too much tends to backfire. Just pick your days off and the trips you like and it's great. Even for junior people they can have more control over the days off they get and get better trips then if they were stuck bidding the bottom lines no one wants.

 

[jonjuan]

Whatever happened to that hot canidian skater chick, Jamie saley?

 

[AirBoard]

Whatever happened to that hot canidian skater chick, Jamie saley?

Hmm not familiar with and Canidian skater.

 

[AirBoard]

She's a FA with us. Great to have on layovers

 

[scoreboardII]

Badumpbump.....

 

[HAL]

I'd triple axel her...

 

[sinkrate]

We finally got out blocks. Took 6 days of a continuous run. They had to open up our hard 16 day max to 17 and our designated block hrs to -9 to +1.

These are big hour swings. Now we have 270 blocks to run and our smaller bases have no problems. Just YYZ 320 FO.

PBS gives you a lot of flexibility but I've seen some weird things too. I've bid for some unproductive pairings to just see them go junior! The reasoning being it needs to spread things out - no one gives good answers. Too many moving parts.

Canned blocks suck but priority system is black and white. Although I think the jr pilots could really get screwed with a priority system.

I am very, very familiar with AdOpt PBS, as a trainer, user and administrator running solutions. The reason for the long run time for your 320 solution is the planner forced the solution to comply with a very narrow range of parameters (number of reserves, block hours per person, days off, etc.) versus letting the program do the math and suggesting the solution. If staffing is short the 'run time' can be very long when they do this. Sometimes it can run for 5 days - then fail. This suggests there is inadequate staffing for the parameters used. In my experience with management this may indicate they are using a manpower plan that does not reflect reality. Some one in management had the idea that 'we can tell the program to give us xx number of reserves and each block holder should credit yy hours with no leftover open time.' There were insufficient crews to achieve that.

The AdOpt program is a matrix algebra solution for solving simultaneous equations with multiple variables. The parameters the planner can specify are actually 'constraints.' When a solution takes a long time to run the constraints are set in a very narrow range. In this case a more systemic approach is to make the first run with all variables opened up to the maximum range allowed by the regs and contract. The solution should complete in a matter of minutes. After examining this solution the second run can be made with the constraint range narrowed down. Sometimes we make 20 or 30 iterations in this manner until we identify which constraints are limiting this month. We will then make 10, 20 or more additional solutions determining how limiting one constraint affects the other constraints. For example - by setting the minimum number of reserves high how much open time is created? As the constraints are narrowed down in tighter and tighter ranges the run times increase and pilot bid preferences are increasingly denied. Sometimes management does not get the reserves they want unless they leave a lot of open time to be paid at premium pay.

When I see a planning group do what yours did it may suggest they do not have a complete understanding of how the program works or how to use it. Too many management teams think they can use PBS to make their manpower plan work. That usually fails. Smart ones eventually learn it is actually the other way around. PBS should be used to determine how many crews you need to minimize payroll costs. Some management groups never get it.

 

[crxpilot]

I am very, very familiar with AdOpt PBS, as a trainer, user and administrator running solutions. The reason for the long run time for your 320 solution is the planner forced the solution to comply with a very narrow range of parameters (number of reserves, block hours per person, days off, etc.) versus letting the program do the math and suggesting the solution. If staffing is short the 'run time' can be very long when they do this. Sometimes it can run for 5 days - then fail. This suggests there is inadequate staffing for the parameters used. In my experience with management this may indicate they are using a manpower plan that does not reflect reality. Some one in management had the idea that 'we can tell the program to give us xx number of reserves and each block holder should credit yy hours with no leftover open time.' There were insufficient crews to achieve that.

The AdOpt program is a matrix algebra solution for solving simultaneous equations with multiple variables. The parameters the planner can specify are actually 'constraints.' When a solution takes a long time to run the constraints are set in a very narrow range. In this case a more systemic approach is to make the first run with all variables opened up to the maximum range allowed by the regs and contract. The solution should complete in a matter of minutes. After examining this solution the second run can be made with the constraint range narrowed down. Sometimes we make 20 or 30 iterations in this manner until we identify which constraints are limiting this month. We will then make 10, 20 or more additional solutions determining how limiting one constraint affects the other constraints. For example - by setting the minimum number of reserves high how much open time is created? As the constraints are narrowed down in tighter and tighter ranges the run times increase and pilot bid preferences are increasingly denied. Sometimes management does not get the reserves they want unless they leave a lot of open time to be paid at premium pay.

When I see a planning group do what yours did it may suggest they do not have a complete understanding of how the program works or how to use it. Too many management teams think they can use PBS to make their manpower plan work. That usually fails. Smart ones eventually learn it is actually the other way around. PBS should be used to determine how many crews you need to minimize payroll costs. Some management groups never get it.

As i read your response, the whole scenario you describe sounds like a blueprint for Allegiant and their use of Merlot PBS. I wish someone like you could be there to knock some sense in their head!

 

[AirBoard]

Hi sinkrate.

Great response. Better than anything our PBS committee can tell us. We've been asking for the straight goods to deflect the blame from them but nothing like the substance you've provided. It sounds like it's unrealistic mgmt constraints.

We have a step by step solutions process as defined in our contract. Hourly max is generally -5 to +1 of the defines base amount but can be expanded up to -10 to + 1. The max day can also be opened from 16 to 17 days. We have some unproductive 3 day parings at 9hrs - these go jr and make solutions difficult. We also use an Optimizer that is employed to help find solutions - never a good thing when you hear the Optimizer has been employed.

It sounds like the mgmt constraints requirement - which the pilots have no control or say over - can lead to some of the longer runs. Is that safe to say? Or do the pilots constraints cause these problems too.

Thanks for your explanation.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Probably the best feature of PBS is the ability to Load Beginning or Load End of lines. With that, and if you're ok with working like a dog other times, you can build a vacation into every other month at the transition. I've never seen paper bids that could reliably do that.

 

[sinkrate]

Hi sinkrate.

Great response. Better than anything our PBS committee can tell us. We've been asking for the straight goods to deflect the blame from them but nothing like the substance you've provided. It sounds like it's unrealistic mgmt constraints.

We have a step by step solutions process as defined in our contract. Hourly max is generally -5 to +1 of the defines base amount but can be expanded up to -10 to + 1. The max day can also be opened from 16 to 17 days. We have some unproductive 3 day parings at 9hrs - these go jr and make solutions difficult. We also use an Optimizer that is employed to help find solutions - never a good thing when you hear the Optimizer has been employed.

It sounds like the mgmt constraints requirement - which the pilots have no control or say over - can lead to some of the longer runs. Is that safe to say? Or do the pilots constraints cause these problems too.

Thanks for your explanation.

I'm not familiar with your working agreement. In general - if every trip credits 6 hours a day, as long as the staffing is adequate, the solutions will run quick - and to a high degree of satisfaction for both the pilots and management. Problems typically start with either inadequate staffing or inefficient trips, or a combination of both. In this case these fixed external 'inputs' may require some of the variable 'constraints' be opened up to a greater range. For example, if staffing is short the minimum days off may need to be reduced, or the maximum line value may need to be increased, or the number of reserves reduced, or all three. The case of inefficient trips is counter intuitive. In this case it may require reducing the minimum pbs line credit below your contractual pay guarantee. Something management may be loth to do. So the answer to your question is - yes - both management and pilot constraints may be limiting.

 

[Turtle21]

Probably the best feature of PBS is the ability to Load Beginning or Load End of lines. With that, and if you're ok with working like a dog other times, you can build a vacation into every other month at the transition. I've never seen paper bids that could reliably do that.

How many airlines have you worked for?

I used SAP to do a 7 day run at the beginning of the month and one at the end with the rest of July as a "vacation" in between. Never used pbs so I won't say anything, accept that management wants it.

 

[Bringupthebird]

Never used pbs so I won't say anything, accept that management wants it.

Is ignorance your only defense for EVERYTHING???

How many airlines??? Weak.