Wall Street airline selloff

[waveflyer]

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/heard-...ry-on-the-airline-selloff-1402592909?mobile=y

 

[scoreboardII]

Need subscription

 

[Turtle21]

Need subscription

Not a problem...

Click the link, copy paste the title of the article, then go to Google and search the title. Click on Google result. Badda bing!

It will get you past many subscription news sites, at least for individual articles.

 

[waveflyer]

June 12, 2014 1:26 PM
The Short Story on the Airline Selloff
By LIAM DENNING
Islamic insurgents in Iraq can be blamed for many things, but they aren't the main factor in this week's airlines selloff.
Delta Air Lines, the biggest by market value, slumped Thursday. The sector overall has lost the gains of the past two weeks. Many have blamed the jump in oil prices amid Iraqi violence.
Yet the sector's relationship with fuel costs isn't what it was. In the five years through 2008, if oil prices went up, airline stocks generally fell. But in the past three years—roughly since the start of Libya's civil war—oil has been flat while the sector has more than doubled.
Airline stocks did fall heavily through the first 10 months of 2011 as Libya's war intensified. But oil's initial surge stalled in May of that year and the sector's weakness likely had as much to do with Europe's intensifying economic crisis.
What has given the sector resilience against high oil prices is consolidation and rationalization. That has led to full planes and high ticket prices.
But investors appear to have forgotten that this remains a notoriously cyclical and highly leveraged industry. And worrying signs about global growth are accumulating, be it Deutsche Lufthansa's weakening guidance or the World Bank cutting economic forecasts.
That is a problem after such a sustained rally for airlines. Short interest, representing bets that stocks will fall, is now down to just 2% of the sector's float, from about 5% at the end of last year, according to UBS.
JetBlue Airways is the exception, with short interest of 20%. That its shares surged more than one-fifth in May despite falling earnings estimates on the back of weak first-quarter results adds to the sense that investors had run ahead of themselves.
Iraq may have provided the excuse, but the seeds of this selloff were sown on Wall Street.

 

[LearLove]

What? We pull out of Iraq and the bad guys come flooding back in. Say it isn't so. Never saw that one coming.

 

[scarlet]

The worst Resume to hold this office !!

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

The worst Resume to hold this office !!

But Ronnie Raygun had "actor" on his resume before governor, and that got us huge deficit spending involving our military (let's kick Grenada's arse) and Iran Contra......talk about a scandal.

 

[JumpersAway]

Whoa, whoa, whoa there Bill! This is Obama's fault. Do not attempt to shift blame away from Obama. Everything is his fault, all the time. Can't you keep up with Fox news?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

my bad Jumpers.....

Faux news knows all.

 

[Tarheelherk]

I just love revisionist history. I guess double digit unemployment, massive inflation and 14% interest rates under Carter just cured themselves! Iran contra never killed a single US ambassador and when Beruit happened we had a standup guy who took full responsibility for it and vowed to not let that happen again. It didn't under his watch. Tip O'Neal and Reagan had a working dinner every Friday night unless other engagements kept them from it. That's what leads do!

 

[JohnQ]

Do you guys honestly think that if McCain or Romney had won either election, that this fiasco in Iraq would be going on the way it is? Give me a break.

Guess what? The ISIS terrorist don't give a rats ass about the president's "concerns" nor do they care about "UN resolutions condemning such and such blah blah blah."

Apparently President Obama actually believes his own press releases, and has mistaken the adoration of doe-eyed, ignorant college students as somehow indicative of how the rest of the world thinks. If only it were that easy. But that is what you get when a "community organizer" who was 99 out of 100 in senate seniority, and whose sole qualifications for the office was that he looks good in a suit and makes pretty-sounding (though completely vacuous and non-specific) speeches, is elected by the "I'm getting me some of that Obama money" public.

 

[Ty Webb]

I just love revisionist history. I guess double digit unemployment, massive inflation and 14% interest rates under Carter just cured themselves! Iran contra never killed a single US ambassador and when Beruit happened we had a standup guy who took full responsibility for it and vowed to not let that happen again. It didn't under his watch. Tip O'Neal and Reagan had a working dinner every Friday night unless other engagements kept them from it. That's what leads do!

Yep. Obama's legacy is looking more and more like the inept Carter admin's every day.

 

[scoreboardII]

Dis the Gipper all you want, he actually had experience in apposition of leadership unlike the current White House jockey.

 

[Andy]

What? We pull out of Iraq and the bad guys come flooding back in. Say it isn't so. Never saw that one coming.

Even Biden was able to conclude what is the best solution - slice the country in three and dump the artificial borders that occurred after WWI when the French and Germans chopped up the Ottoman Empire. He came up with that back in 2006. Of course the plan had been pushed by the Pentagon since ~2002, but had they gone forth with that plan, it probably would have saved a lot of current pain. http://www.alternet.org/story/64433/congress_wants_to_split_iraq_in_three_pieces,_but_who_asked_them

My money's on Iraq ending up in 3 pieces when the dust settles.

 

[jonjuan]

Yep. Obama's legacy is looking more and more like the inept Carter admin's every day.

Yep-cue the Rachel mad cows zombies talking points in 3, 2, 1............

 

[waveflyer]

Yep. Obama's legacy is looking more and more like the inept Carter admin's every day.

Yay, just what we need at southwest: more ideological- highly paid union workers of the extreme right wing type who will defend their socialistic seniority to the death, while having delusions of grandeur that they are the 1% everyone's mad at



It's comical during airline good times- very sad during financial distress when we actually need to support our unions the most

 

[waveflyer]

Even Biden was able to conclude what is the best solution - slice the country in three and dump the artificial borders that occurred after WWI when the French and Germans chopped up the Ottoman Empire. He came up with that back in 2006. Of course the plan had been pushed by the Pentagon since ~2002, but had they gone forth with that plan, it probably would have saved a lot of current pain. http://www.alternet.org/story/64433/congress_wants_to_split_iraq_in_three_pieces,_but_who_asked_them

My money's on Iraq ending up in 3 pieces when the dust settles.

Good analysis, I agree

But waaayy too complex for most of this crowd

 

[zasca]

The British drew the lines on the map that created Iraq... And how long exactly were we supposed to keep soldiers there?? Shiite tribes suddenly controlling their oppressors (who happen to also be all the bureaucrats) and the only guys who have their act together (kurds) have wanted to break away since 1991 (along with half the oil). This situation was inevitable. Almost like we should seen it coming before we ever invaded. Oh wait, who's idea was that? Riiiiiiight.... Both parties suck equally at nation building, so stop whining like little girls and support whatever guy who wants to spend billions on a viable replacement for oil, instead of body bags and juicy halliburton contracts.

 

[brokedash]

It not about this country or another country, that is the lie they sell us to keep people from the truth. It about every countries favorite citizen, debt based currency systems and putting the people of a nation further in the hole.

 

[Smarta$$]

The British drew the lines on the map that created Iraq... And how long exactly were we supposed to keep soldiers there?? Shiite tribes suddenly controlling their oppressors (who happen to also be all the bureaucrats) and the only guys who have their act together (kurds) have wanted to break away since 1991 (along with half the oil). This situation was inevitable. Almost like we should seen it coming before we ever invaded. Oh wait, who's idea was that? Riiiiiiight.... Both parties suck equally at nation building, so stop whining like little girls and support whatever guy who wants to spend billions on a viable replacement for oil, instead of body bags and juicy halliburton contracts.

This is the only intelligent post so far.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Yay, just what we need at southwest: more ideological- highly paid union workers of the extreme right wing type who will defend their socialistic seniority to the death, while having delusions of grandeur that they are the 1% everyone's mad at



It's comical during airline good times- very sad during financial distress when we actually need to support our unions the most

What in the world has this the first thing to do with what Ty Webb said about Obama being as inept as Carter? Uh..... I'm gonna' say not the first damn thing. They are completely unrelated. But, it's just another chance for you to push your ideological supposition that anyone who takes part in a union must be a loyal Democrat, or else they're stupid. Is that it? Do you really believe this?

Bubba

 

[waveflyer]

No, it's not that simple bubba- there are dozens upon dozens of objective reasons to vote democrat- esp for job support

 

[SWA Bubba]

No, it's not that simple bubba- there are dozens upon dozens of objective reasons to vote democrat- esp for job support

"Objective"? Really?

Suppose you name a few of those "dozens and dozens" of reasons that are actually objective, instead of just your opinion (uh, that would make it "subjective"). If you're going to say that Democrats protect our jobs better, I'll say that I disagree. Not only do I disagree that it's objective, but I also disagree that any Democrat (especially this president) actually give a crap about airline pilots or their jobs.

BTW, the biggest threat to our jobs in recent years is this NAI threat of outsourcing, and that is being fought with bipartisan support. It is not just a "democrat thing."

And the only thing that I can think of that President Obama said concerning me in particular and my job since he's been in charge, is that I need to pay more taxes than I already did, and that he would see to it. And, by God, he did see to it. Now I pay considerably more taxes than I did before, thanks to Democrats. Not sure I call that "supporting" me. Do you think any Democrat would change anything in our airline world of bargaining between employees who make six figures and their managements? Is President Obama going to talk to Gary and get him off his "flattish" stance? Do you think any Democratic president would actually allow any major airline to strike if section six came down to it? You're living in an idealistic dream world if you do.

And like I said, this has jack crap to do with the President's ineptitude and what Ty Webb said. It wouldn't matter whether he was the best Democrat ever, or the worst Democrat ever. Regardless, I don't want or need his particular brand of "help."

Bubba

 

[waveflyer]

Sounds like the arrogance of someone who's lived under the financial stability of SWA for most their career

Good luck bubba

Republicans do not support you- I've lived it

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

"Objective"? Really?

Suppose you name a few of those "dozens and dozens" of reasons that are actually objective, instead of just your opinion (uh, that would make it "subjective"). If you're going to say that Democrats protect our jobs better, I'll say that I disagree. Not only do I disagree that it's objective, but I also disagree that any Democrat (especially this president) actually give a crap about airline pilots or their jobs.

BTW, the biggest threat to our jobs in recent years is this NAI threat of outsourcing, and that is being fought with bipartisan support. It is not just a "democrat thing."

And the only thing that I can think of that President Obama said concerning me in particular and my job since he's been in charge, is that I need to pay more taxes than I already did, and that he would see to it. And, by God, he did see to it. Now I pay considerably more taxes than I did before, thanks to Democrats. Not sure I call that "supporting" me. Do you think any Democrat would change anything in our airline world of bargaining between employees who make six figures and their managements? Is President Obama going to talk to Gary and get him off his "flattish" stance? Do you think any Democratic president would actually allow any major airline to strike if section six came down to it? You're living in an idealistic dream world if you do.

And like I said, this has jack crap to do with the President's ineptitude and what Ty Webb said. It wouldn't matter whether he was the best Democrat ever, or the worst Democrat ever. Regardless, I don't want or need his particular brand of "help."

Bubba

Why did taxes go up? Because you make more money Bubba....the effective tax rate didn't change. Obamacare doesn't count either, you are on a cadillac plan. The only thing that has changed was Obama let the. Bush TEMPORARY payroll tax cuts expire...which was a good thing since Jorge and the Chaneman dug 'Merica a Military-Industrial complex deficit hole which needed to be repaid.

 

[SWA Bubba]

Why did taxes go up? Because you make more money Bubba....the effective tax rate didn't change. Obamacare doesn't count either, you are on a cadillac plan. The only thing that has changed was Obama let the. Bush TEMPORARY payroll tax cuts expire...which was a good thing since Jorge and the Chaneman dug 'Merica a Military-Industrial complex deficit hole which needed to be repaid.

Not true, Bill. Do you even look at your own taxes?

The payroll tax cuts you were speaking of were from FICA withholding, and separate from federal income tax. And actually, I believe they were a two-or three-year thing that President Obama did, not Bush. But regardless, I was speaking purely about federal income tax, not FICA or Medicare withholding. It has gone up in several meaningful ways, without additional earnings. And I don't know why you say Obamacare doesn't count--embedded in that massive legislation was a number of tax increases completely unrelated to health care. For example, interest income is now taxed at a rate 3.8% higher than ordinary income for your given marginal tax rate. They call it a "surcharge." Same with long-term capital gains: a 3.8% increase above the existing rate for your tax bracket. Plus there's more deductions that have been more limited or removed for people who make the money we do (essentially the same as last year). So yes, Bill, the effective tax rate HAS increased considerably. Seems like a real disincentive for anyone to save or invest.

The fact that I have a "Cadillac" health plan will affect me starting this year, as in more "imputed income" that I'll have to pay taxes on. That wasn't included in last year's due. That'll be even more tax on the same money next year.

Bubba

 

[waveflyer]

I'll let bill answer the tax issue- bc I agree with him and don't need to be redundant- and I promise you I pay a hell of a lot more than you.
But let's look at the country's financial reality-Do you resent your taxes going up given the debt?
Do you think that debt will magically disappear without your taxes going up?

 

[SWA Bubba]

I'll let bill answer the tax issue- bc I agree with him and don't need to be redundant- and I promise you I pay a hell of a lot more than you.

Well, Bill was wrong about taxes (saying that effective tax rate is not going up when in fact, it has and is), so I'm not sure what else he wants to add. You keep telling me how much money your business makes, so that you pay more taxes than me. Okay,.... so what? I agree that if you make more, then you should pay more. But just because you don't have a problem with the Democrats' tax policies doesn't mean squat to those of us who do. Are you really saying that because you're happy with it, that everyone else should be?

But let's look at the country's financial reality-Do you resent your taxes going up given the debt?
Do you think that debt will magically disappear without your taxes going up?

You're mixing issues here, but yes, in general, I resent my taxes going up, given the debt. But that's mainly because of why the debt is going up. I resent being forced to pay more taxes to repay the irresponsible and excessive spending by this administration, especially in the entitlements area. Twenty-five years ago, less than 30% of Americans received entitlements from the federal government. Today, that number is over 49.1% and climbing. Why is that Wave? Could it be the left promises this money to secure votes? When will that end, and how long do you suppose that steady increase is sustainable?

And no, I don't think the debt will magically disappear, regardless of my tax burden. It will only disappear when the federal government stops promising and spending so friggin' much money. And no matter how much I and others are taxed, the debt will never disappear with the type of administration we have now. As they see more tax income, they invariably spend more. Never mind that they're still spending much more than they're taking in.

I also resent my tax burden increasing, while half of all working Americans pay exactly zero federal income tax, or even get money back from the IRS after paying nothing. Essentially, my taxes are increased to subsidize their lives, all in the name of garnering their votes for liberal politicians. If you really want to talk "fairness," then everybody should pay something.

And I'm not sure how it always happens, but once again you've turned a thread with an unrelated comment about the President's ability (or lack thereof, according to Ty Webb) into something completely different--a forum for your generalized left-wing talking points. You're always long on sound bites, but short on specifics.

Bubba

P.S. I realize you probably won't read all this, because you've already explained your short attention span, but I figured I'd give it a shot.

 

[wms]

A thread hijacking? On FI.com?

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Uh-oh....SNAP....

Bubba used the word "entitlements"! The catch phrase of the False news channel around 8pm.

Social security is not an entitlement.
Corn subsidies to farmers...isn't that entitlements
Oil research subsidies to companies printing cash in the basement...is that an entitlement?
Defense spending for yesterday's war like another aircraft carrier....is that a Lockheed entitlement?

Welfare is a problem but not as bad as the Old fat white men want us to believe.