Jetblue Lies About McCaskill-Bond Protections

[linepilot]

It's official. McCaskill-Bond does NOT cover non-union pilots. Despite what jetblew and their third-parties have been telling you.

Judge Roslyn Silver:

"Only a bargaining agent can participate in the McCaskill-Bond process."

But we knew that already, didn't we?

Cue the useful idiots who will now explain that McBond isn't necessary with our POS PEAs.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

Hopefully more eyes will open up and see what a sham the DR truly is. But as Mark Twain once said, "It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they've been fooled."

 

[PCL_128]

You're reading too much into the ruling. It's only talking about when an agent is already in place (the APA, in this case). You do have M-B protections as a non-union airline. The problem is who would represent you: management. That's your real problem without having a union.

 

[Floatplane]

You're reading too much into the ruling. It's only talking about when an agent is already in place (the APA, in this case). You do have M-B protections as a non-union airline. The problem is who would represent you: management. That's your real problem without having a union.

Do you have a legal opinion to back up your statement?

 

[oldxfr8dog]

Management is going to negotiate my SLI?
Oh, I feel much better...

 

[ackattacker]

It's official. McCaskill-Bond does NOT cover non-union pilots. Despite what jetblew and their third-parties have been telling you.

Judge Roslyn Silver:

"Only a bargaining agent can participate in the McCaskill-Bond process."

But we knew that already, didn't we?

Cue the useful idiots who will now explain that McBond isn't necessary with our POS PEAs.

Judge Silver missed the mark in a lot of her ruling, but here you are misrepresenting her on top of that. The entire text makes clear that she is only talking about cases where a Certified Bargaining Agent exists. Where there is no certified bargaining agent, the text of M-B and the prior cases Silver cites are quite explicit that employees are still entitled to their own representation.

The crucial phrases here are that ?the organization or organizations representing the employee or employees? will bear part of the cost of arbitration but ?if unrepresented, the employee or employees or group or groups of employees? must pay a portion of the cost. Again, this language can be viewed as stating that when a certified bargaining representative exists, only that representative will be involved in the arbitration.

 

[linepilot]

That's certainly not the way I read that and her statement regarding certified bargaining agents and McBond sounds very UN-ambiguous.

The next judge will likely take her statement on its face and make some ridiculous ruling.

In either event, we all know who wins and who loses when there's ambiguity.

Of course, there will be no shortage of learned interpretation right up until we're all applying for our preferential interviews. Then there will be more hand wringing and "ah shucks" about how it happened that way.

Dumbest pilot group on the planet.

Regarding jetblew lies, this management keeps telling this pilot group that they enjoy all of the protections of any other major airline pilot group BECAUSE of McBond and the clever way they wrote our so-called "five documents."

 

[Splert]

Define Bargaining Agent.

Management can designate a BA only IF the employees have not certified a sole and exclusive BA though an NMB election.

 

[linepilot]

Another "judge" chimes in.

 

[pilotpayne]

That's certainly not the way I read that and her statement regarding certified bargaining agents and McBond sounds very UN-ambiguous.

The next judge will likely take her statement on its face and make some ridiculous ruling.

In either event, we all know who wins and who loses when there's ambiguity.

Of course, there will be no shortage of learned interpretation right up until we're all applying for our preferential interviews. Then there will be more hand wringing and "ah shucks" about how it happened that way.

Dumbest pilot group on the planet.

Regarding jetblew lies, this management keeps telling this pilot group that they enjoy all of the protections of any other major airline pilot group BECAUSE of McBond and the clever way they wrote our so-called "five documents."

Backpedal backpedal.....


Soon we will have Alpa and the point will be moot.

 

[PCL_128]

Do you have a legal opinion to back up your statement?

That's the opinion of ALPA's attorneys, not my own. M-B was designed to give protections to everyone. The problem is that it wasn't very well thought out, so the protection that it gives to non-union groups is ambiguous. But it isn't non-existent.

Again, you need a union. Quickly. But spreading false information is a great way to alienate potential yes-voters. Telling people the truth is the best way to get people on your side.

 

[pilotpayne]

that's the opinion of alpa's attorneys, not my own. M-b was designed to give protections to everyone. The problem is that it wasn't very well thought out, so the protection that it gives to non-union groups is ambiguous. But it isn't non-existent.

again, you need a union. Quickly. But spreading false information is a great way to alienate potential yes-voters. Telling people the truth is the best way to get people on your side.

+1000000000000

 

[linepilot]

So the claim of the thread is that jetblew is lying to us about McBond.

How is that an untruth?

Jetblew has been saying all along that we have the same (or better) protection than pilots with a CBA. That has never been true and it becomes even less so as we hear from judges.

And just what kind of voters get their panties in a wad over that?

You mean we have voters who still haven't figured out that jetblew isn't being truthful? If that's the case, then clearly this pilot group needs to experience more pain.

 

[Splert]

Jetblue lied because in their explanation of what triggers McBond they changed "and" to "or".

McBond requires two events: A "and" B not the lie of A "or" B.

Also the RLA defines BA and there is no mention of the NMB and I believe the word you added "certified". In other words the RLA does not require a certified bargaining agent can appoint thier own and if their is a dispute then the NMB has a process for this dispute. DS appointed himself a few years ago to represent you to Jetblue regarding Scope.

Right now we are about to file a representation dispute with the NMB. The company has selected the PVC the employees have cards to submit and the NMB will determine the dispute though an election.

We need ALPA 7 years ago!

 

[PCL_128]

So the claim of the thread is that jetblew is lying to us about McBond.

No, the claim of the thread is that "McCaskill-Bond does NOT cover non-union pilots." Those were your words at the start of this thread. They are wrong. Don't spread falsehoods if you want to get people on your side. It makes it very easy for the people opposed to a union to get some scumbag attorney from Ford & Harrison to write a letter explaining just how wrong you are. And then your credibility is damaged with the crowd that is on the fence.

Just stick to the facts and you'll win. JetBlue management doesn't have a leg to stand on. But if you damage your own credibility, the wishy-washy pilots who can't make up their minds will think both you and management can't be trusted, and you won't get their votes. Bad strategy.

 

[Splert]

It is the nature of the transaction that determines if the pilots (employees) (union or non union) are covered under McBond.

We have a better chance to be covered by McBond with a CBA that has the proper language to insure McBond is in fact triggered.

Not sure why that is so hard for pilots to understand.

 

[linepilot]

Just stick to the facts and you'll win. JetBlue management doesn't have a leg to stand on. But if you damage your own credibility, the wishy-washy pilots who can't make up their minds will think both you and management can't be trusted, and you won't get their votes. Bad strategy.

Win what? Ten years of fruitless negotiations with a bunch of lambs with no resolve?

The time to protect what we had was when we still had it. That time is over.

Why do I care about credibility? I'm a jetblew pilot. I have none.

And why does everyone assume that when someone points out a jetblew lie or calls out the morons who got us here, that they are on the OC or that they are ALPA boosters, or that they have a strategy?

This is reaping and sowing. Actions need reactions. Even if those reactions are visceral.

I don't need credibility for that. I don't need a strategy.

If we hide the fact that jetblew is a contrived cult, that jetblew is not an airline, it's a PR Machine and an ATM for a few sack lickers, then we cannot hope to drag it into the gutter that it belongs in.

The McBond process won't be used if jetblew pilots are involved in a TA without a union. It will be bypassed with trickery and ambiguity and backroom deals.

End of story.

I truly hope we get a chance to test my expert opinion. That opinion now reinforced by the decision from Judge Silver.

Your results may vary, but please enjoy! :laugh:

 

[Splert]

The McBond process won't be used if jetblew pilots are involved in a T[E]A without a union. It will be bypassed with trickery and ambiguity and backroom deals.

Agree 100%. We will be bought or acquired by Guadalupe Blue!

 

[pilotpayne]

Agree 100%. We will be bought or acquired by Guadalupe Blue!

Didn't they use Guadalupe to buy an ALPA carrier ie AirTran?
Since we have no union why would they need it if we follow your logic.

In the end we still need a cba

 

[Splert]

In order to not trigger McBond.

This issue is not union or non union. Each are covered by McBond IF and I say again IF the two conditions of McBond are met.

This is where jetblue mislead the pilot group a few years ago. They added an "or" between the two conditions where an "and" is in the statute.