Fractional flying dropped 10.6 percent in April

[Praetorian]

Again, where have I, and a majority of fractional pilots, given the impression that we think increased costs are the answer to our woes? If you are talking about the few unionized pilots on this board, then say so. But don't insult our intelligence by lumping us into one group. You have an answer that is flat out wrong! And the only way you can sell that answer is if you crowbar the majority of us into a false category.

While I don't presume to speak for all "unionized pilots", I think most of us understand that for our unions to be successful, our companies must be successful first. We just want our fair share of that success. After all most of us have more years invested in that success than our respective managements. We also understand that it's managements job to try to keep as much of the profits for themselves and their investors as they can. This doesn't make them bad people, it just means that their interests don't align with those of the pilots. Those who fail to understand this often suffer.

I would also point out that its inaccurate to suggest that there are a "few unionized pilots" on this board. After all three of the four major fractionals are unionized and over 90% of all professional pilots are unionized.

I have often been severely critical of those anti-union individuals who come here to post. Its because I think they have an agenda and I think their agenda it to undermine our unions, in an effort to insure that the playing field is not level with respect to pilot wages, work rules and job protections. They try to divide us, reduce our bargaining power, cause us to question our core beliefs and make sure management retains the upper hand. Some of them are subtle and skillful in doing this. Some of them are credulous idiots who are being maniplated by smarter people, for a purpose.

But, I have nothing but contempt for those who openly declare their intention to scab, or those who hide their true union-busting natures behind the facade of reasonable debate and calm demeanor, and I will not apologize for attacking them. They have only one objective, to keep as much money out of the pockets of the pilots and in those of their bosses in management.

I hope this helps you understand why some of the "union guys" take such a hard line during some of these debates.

 

[CaveoFalco]

While I don't presume to speak for all "unionized pilots", I think most of us understand that for our unions to be successful, our companies must be successful first. We just want our fair share of that success. After all most of us have more years invested in that success than our respective managements. We also understand that it's managements job to try to keep as much of the profits for themselves and their investors as they can. This doesn't make them bad people, it just means that their interests don't align with those of the pilots. Those who fail to understand this often suffer.

I would also point out that its inaccurate to suggest that there are a "few unionized pilots" on this board. After all three of the four major fractionals are unionized and over 90% of all professional pilots are unionized.

I have often been severely critical of those anti-union individuals who come here to post. Its because I think they have an agenda and I think their agenda it to undermine our unions, in an effort to insure that the playing field is not level with respect to pilot wages, work rules and job protections. They try to divide us, reduce our bargaining power, cause us to question our core beliefs and make sure management retains the upper hand. Some of them are subtle and skillful in doing this. Some of them are credulous idiots who are being maniplated by smarter people, for a purpose.

But, I have nothing but contempt for those who openly declare their intention to scab, or those who hide their true union-busting natures behind the facade of reasonable debate and calm demeanor, and I will not apologize for attacking them. They have only one objective, to keep as much money out of the pockets of the pilots and in those of their bosses in management.

I hope this helps you understand why some of the "union guys" take such a hard line during some of these debates.

Personally, doesn't bother me a bit to have the anti-union folks here debating. The more they talk the more we know - "know your enemy....."

Crossing a picket line talk ends up being a lot of "huff and puff". The reality is that most pilots that say they would SCAB, won't when it comes down to it. Like it or not, they all know what it is like on the other side of crossing and in the aviation industry, strikes are really short lived but memories are not.

Thought your statement:

"Some of them are credulous idiots who are being maniplated by smarter people, for a purpose."

is particularly profound. Unfortunately, we have those people in unions too and that hurts our cause.

 

[gret]

One shouldn't confuse a balanced approach with being anti-union. Extreme views on a matter are normally misguided.

The comment-

"But, I have nothing but contempt for those who openly declare their intention to scab, or those who hide their true union-busting natures behind the facade of reasonable debate and calm demeanor, and I will not apologize for attacking them."​

What's wrong with reasonable debate and a calm demeanor? Do you really think that Berkshire Hathaway would employ a "union buster" and take the risk of tainting their reputation? Doubtful as the company is a rounding error in the whole scheme of things.

Nobody is out to get ya!

 

[CALRepublic]

Personally, doesn't bother me a bit to have the anti-union folks here debating. The more they talk the more we know - "know your enemy....."

.

"enemy". that's a bit too dramatic

We have both anti and pro-union people here. But most of us are in the middle

People like me see a need for unions, CEOs (and/or management) will take away from employees whatever they can. The more the company saves, they more the company makes, the more they return to investors, the more brownie points they get.

But sometimes there is a need to go the extra mile to help the company but you can't because of a contract. Then I don't like unions as much.

I'll explain:

Landed in San Jose Costa Rica (13 hour duty day), we noticed a Falcon 2000 taxiing out, 10 minutes later, they came back to the FBO, they broke, flaps wouldn't operate.. My flying buddy and I called schedulling, we offered to do the flight, the scheduller said and I quote " Thanks but no thanks, if you do the flight it'd put you over 16 hours, and I don't feel like getting chewed out by the union"

They ferried a Citation X from Barbados, that was expensive, but more importnatly, the passengers were delayed 4 hours

So as far as unions go, I'm in the middle, like most

 

[CaveoFalco]

...... Do you really think that Berkshire Hathaway would employ a "union buster" and take the risk of tainting their reputation? Doubtful as the company is a rounding error in the whole scheme of things.

Nobody is out to get ya!

They have already done that multiple times and will continue to do so. In fact he has busted a Union going way back in history. Like most robber barons of the past 100 years, he gets others to do his dirty work for him, keeps a jovial/articulate/intelligent public face, gives his massive wealth back to foundations at the end, and then the takes his place in history as a benevolent benefactor.

 

[CaveoFalco]

"enemy". that's a bit too dramatic

That is a reference to a statement Sun Tzu in the Art of War and is often used in the business education literature. Here is the actual quote:

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."

No drama, just a relevant quote from history 6th Century BCE.

 

[fischman]

Do you really think that Berkshire Hathaway would employ a "union buster" and take the risk of tainting their reputation? Doubtful as the company is a rounding error in the whole scheme of things.

Nobody is out to get ya!

Yes. I do think they would hire a union buster. As a matter of fact, I think they have hired one. As a matter of fact, I think the CEO is one.

You are severely mistaken. They ARE out to get us. It is their job. It is their job to get the cheapest contract possible! Ask Cessna or Gulfstream. It is the union's job to get the best contract for the pilots. It's how business works. The only question is how long do they want to get the pilots and owners upset before they realize they aren't going to win??? Because we WILL get what the pilots want.

 

[gret]

Can hear your conviction by reading your words.

It's just hard to grasp the notion I guess.

Saw an interesting stat recently that said just 11% of the country's workforce was unionized and half of that was government workers. 6% of the private sector workforce belongs to a union...a 97 year low.

 

[Praetorian]

Can hear your conviction by reading your words.

It's just hard to grasp the notion I guess.

Saw an interesting stat recently that said just 11% of the country's workforce was unionized and half of that was government workers. 6% of the private sector workforce belongs to a union...a 97 year low.

And here we have if folks, the union-buster plying his trade. His objective is to apply doubt, fear and obfuscation.

It matters little that 11% if workers nationwide are unionized. The fact that over 90% of professional pilots are unionized is what matters.

 

[Praetorian]

Union Busters

Here is an educational piece about how Gret and his buds run things. Does any of this sound familiar?

http://inthesetimes.com/article/3326/unionbusting_confidential/