Fractional flying dropped 10.6 percent in April

[gret]

From today's AIN Alert

U.S. Bizav Traffic Down Slightly in April

Business aircraft activity in the U.S. fell for the third consecutive month, with flying hours down slightly?by 0.4 percent?year-over-year last month, according to TraqPak data released on Friday by aviation services company Argus. As has been the trend for much of this year, Part 135 was the only operational category to experience a gain in flying activity, increasing 10.5 percent from a year ago and marking its seventh consecutive monthly increase. Part 91 activity was down 3.2 percent year-over-year, while fractional flying dropped by 10.6 percent, the Argus data shows. By aircraft category, the turboprop segment experienced the only decline last month, decreasing by 5.7 percent from a year ago. Large-cabin jet flying led the pack with a 4.9-percent year-over-year gain, with midsize and light jets recording increases of 2.5 percent and 1 percent, respectively. There were several bright spots in individual market segments, including double-digit gains in Part 135 jet flying, with light and midsize charter jet flying up by 12.1 percent and 20.4 percent from last year. Large-cabin charter jet flying also climbed by a healthy 9.3 percent. Fractional turboprop flying saw the largest drop, falling 22.6 percent year-over-year. Argus TraqPak data provides ?serial-number-specific aircraft arrival and departure information on all IFR flights in the U.S.?

How does this square with all the comments that everyone is flying the wings off the aircraft? Granted Avantair may be down, but they wouldn't impact the overall numbers that much.

Charter looks very good!

Wonder why things are what they are?

 

[gunfyter]

Doesn't jibe at all ....

But we fly 135 a lot more than we use to. So perhaps they count that as charter

 

[CaveoFalco]

Aren't Citation Air and FLOPS out of the Fractional Business?

 

[BoeingBaller]

From today's AIN Alert

U.S. Bizav Traffic Down Slightly in April

Business aircraft activity in the U.S. fell for the third consecutive month, with flying hours down slightly?by 0.4 percent?year-over-year last month, according to TraqPak data released on Friday by aviation services company Argus. As has been the trend for much of this year, Part 135 was the only operational category to experience a gain in flying activity, increasing 10.5 percent from a year ago and marking its seventh consecutive monthly increase. Part 91 activity was down 3.2 percent year-over-year, while fractional flying dropped by 10.6 percent, the Argus data shows. By aircraft category, the turboprop segment experienced the only decline last month, decreasing by 5.7 percent from a year ago. Large-cabin jet flying led the pack with a 4.9-percent year-over-year gain, with midsize and light jets recording increases of 2.5 percent and 1 percent, respectively. There were several bright spots in individual market segments, including double-digit gains in Part 135 jet flying, with light and midsize charter jet flying up by 12.1 percent and 20.4 percent from last year. Large-cabin charter jet flying also climbed by a healthy 9.3 percent. Fractional turboprop flying saw the largest drop, falling 22.6 percent year-over-year. Argus TraqPak data provides ?serial-number-specific aircraft arrival and departure information on all IFR flights in the U.S.?

How does this square with all the comments that everyone is flying the wings off the aircraft? Granted Avantair may be down, but they wouldn't impact the overall numbers that much.

Charter looks very good!

Wonder why things are what they are?

Look who's in office...

 

[realityman]

Aren't Citation Air and FLOPS out of the Fractional Business?

FLOPS is still going pretty strong.

But yes, CA is about done.

And Gun has it right also, we're doing a ton of 135 flying at NJA. They may be counting that in the survey as part of the charter flying.

 

[pilotyip]

From today's AIN Alert

U.S. Bizav Traffic Down Slightly in April

while fractional flying dropped by 10.6 percent, the Argus data shows.
Wonder why things are what they are?

Could it be customers are affair of a possible strike by the pilots in the fractional business and are taking their business elsewhere?

 

[realityman]

Could it be customers are affair of a possible strike by the pilots in the fractional business and are taking their business elsewhere?

No.

They would have to be taking their business elsewhere before we ever even talked about going into negotiations.

Seriously, that's the best you have?

 

[gret]

My guess is that people find it cheaper to charter...

...but that is not what would concern me....it is the fact that flying is still down substantially from 2007. The NetJet CEO said the industry was still down 20% from its peak. 5-6 years is a long time for a recovery.

 

[doh]

Could it be customers are affair of a possible strike by the pilots in the fractional business and are taking their business elsewhere?

We aren't union, so what the heck are you talking about? 135 is way up because people don't want to own the asset. I'm not smart enough to know why, but they are flying more and doing it 135, so they must not want to own.

 

[imacdog]

No.

They would have to be taking their business elsewhere before we ever even talked about going into negotiations.

Seriously, that's the best you have?

Yes it is. Pretty sad, isn't it?

 

[pilotyip]

We aren't union, so what the heck are you talking about? 135 is way up because people don't want to own the asset. I'm not smart enough to know why, but they are flying more and doing it 135, so they must not want to own.

Of course you are not, but as per above jet users are finding it cheaper to rent than own. That is what is building up the 135 business opposed to the Fractional growth, yet the fractional pilots think by making it more expensive to become a fractional owner they can recapture that busienss lost to chrater operators.

 

[CaveoFalco]

Of course you are not, but as per above jet users are finding it cheaper to rent than own. That is what is building up the 135 business opposed to the Fractional growth, yet the fractional pilots think by making it more expensive to become a fractional owner they can recapture that busienss lost to chrater operators.

How do you know what fractional pilots think? Reading this board?

Have you read NetJets financials? The business is making a lot of money, both directly and indirectly in charter, leasing, and fractional. NetJets is business model diversified enough to fend of the political pressures from the government and the marketplace.

 

[OPECJet]

Of course you are not, but as per above jet users are finding it cheaper to rent than own. That is what is building up the 135 business opposed to the Fractional growth, yet the fractional pilots think by making it more expensive to become a fractional owner they can recapture that busienss lost to chrater operators.

The pilot group isn't the one charging a 30% premium over our competitors while reporting large profits.

 

[Pervis]

....yet the fractional pilots think by making it more expensive to become a fractional owner they can recapture that busienss lost to chrater operators.

Come on Yip. Both of us are smarter than that. It's always the hype that the evil employees are the driving factor in cost of operations when in fact it is a very small percentage, especially in aviation. Funny how this always comes up when negotiations are about to begin.

When I see our schedulers choose to repo a jet at huge expense with the sole purpose of getting a crew home to avoid the after midnight penalty, I don't even want to hear how costly our wages and benefits are. They regularly burn up a month or two of a crew's salary every time they do that, and even openly admit it. Take the battle cry of poverty somewhere else.

 

[imacdog]

Yip's just used to handing out piss wages to his cargo pilots and isn't used to dealing with pilots who know what they are worth.

 

[gunfyter]

Pilot Shortage is hitting now YIP .... this is the calm just before the Tsunami.

 

[gutshotdraw]

And Yip is the one who has been predicting a pilot shortage and hiring boom for, how long has it been now Yip? Two years?

 

[pilotyip]

Yip's just used to handing out piss wages to his cargo pilots and isn't used to dealing with pilots who know what they are worth.

Actually we are providing charity for about 4 NJ pilots kicked out the door 4 years ago, and they are getting a lot more "worth" from JUS right now then "worth" from NJ.

Pilot Shortage is hitting now YIP .... this is the calm just before the Tsunami.

Actually I have not used the term pilot shortage for over 12 years since I got beat up by Avbug, I have used the term hiring boom to reflect the growing hiring trends now seen in the industry

 

[gret]

There is no shortage if flight hours don't increase...for business aircraft pilots.

Life doesn't begin and end with NetJets, or any of the other fractionals...the market is much larger and we should all hope the pie gets bigger no matter who you fly for.

 

[doh]

Of course you are not, but as per above jet users are finding it cheaper to rent than own. That is what is building up the 135 business opposed to the Fractional growth, yet the fractional pilots think by making it more expensive to become a fractional owner they can recapture that busienss lost to chrater operators.

Again, where have I, and a majority of fractional pilots, given the impression that we think increased costs are the answer to our woes? If you are talking about the few unionized pilots on this board, then say so. But don't insult our intelligence by lumping us into one group. You have an answer that is flat out wrong! And the only way you can sell that answer is if you crowbar the majority of us into a false category.

 

[Praetorian]

Again, where have I, and a majority of fractional pilots, given the impression that we think increased costs are the answer to our woes? If you are talking about the few unionized pilots on this board, then say so. But don't insult our intelligence by lumping us into one group. You have an answer that is flat out wrong! And the only way you can sell that answer is if you crowbar the majority of us into a false category.

While I don't presume to speak for all "unionized pilots", I think most of us understand that for our unions to be successful, our companies must be successful first. We just want our fair share of that success. After all most of us have more years invested in that success than our respective managements. We also understand that it's managements job to try to keep as much of the profits for themselves and their investors as they can. This doesn't make them bad people, it just means that their interests don't align with those of the pilots. Those who fail to understand this often suffer.

I would also point out that its inaccurate to suggest that there are a "few unionized pilots" on this board. After all three of the four major fractionals are unionized and over 90% of all professional pilots are unionized.

I have often been severely critical of those anti-union individuals who come here to post. Its because I think they have an agenda and I think their agenda it to undermine our unions, in an effort to insure that the playing field is not level with respect to pilot wages, work rules and job protections. They try to divide us, reduce our bargaining power, cause us to question our core beliefs and make sure management retains the upper hand. Some of them are subtle and skillful in doing this. Some of them are credulous idiots who are being maniplated by smarter people, for a purpose.

But, I have nothing but contempt for those who openly declare their intention to scab, or those who hide their true union-busting natures behind the facade of reasonable debate and calm demeanor, and I will not apologize for attacking them. They have only one objective, to keep as much money out of the pockets of the pilots and in those of their bosses in management.

I hope this helps you understand why some of the "union guys" take such a hard line during some of these debates.

 

[CaveoFalco]

While I don't presume to speak for all "unionized pilots", I think most of us understand that for our unions to be successful, our companies must be successful first. We just want our fair share of that success. After all most of us have more years invested in that success than our respective managements. We also understand that it's managements job to try to keep as much of the profits for themselves and their investors as they can. This doesn't make them bad people, it just means that their interests don't align with those of the pilots. Those who fail to understand this often suffer.

I would also point out that its inaccurate to suggest that there are a "few unionized pilots" on this board. After all three of the four major fractionals are unionized and over 90% of all professional pilots are unionized.

I have often been severely critical of those anti-union individuals who come here to post. Its because I think they have an agenda and I think their agenda it to undermine our unions, in an effort to insure that the playing field is not level with respect to pilot wages, work rules and job protections. They try to divide us, reduce our bargaining power, cause us to question our core beliefs and make sure management retains the upper hand. Some of them are subtle and skillful in doing this. Some of them are credulous idiots who are being maniplated by smarter people, for a purpose.

But, I have nothing but contempt for those who openly declare their intention to scab, or those who hide their true union-busting natures behind the facade of reasonable debate and calm demeanor, and I will not apologize for attacking them. They have only one objective, to keep as much money out of the pockets of the pilots and in those of their bosses in management.

I hope this helps you understand why some of the "union guys" take such a hard line during some of these debates.

Personally, doesn't bother me a bit to have the anti-union folks here debating. The more they talk the more we know - "know your enemy....."

Crossing a picket line talk ends up being a lot of "huff and puff". The reality is that most pilots that say they would SCAB, won't when it comes down to it. Like it or not, they all know what it is like on the other side of crossing and in the aviation industry, strikes are really short lived but memories are not.

Thought your statement:

"Some of them are credulous idiots who are being maniplated by smarter people, for a purpose."

is particularly profound. Unfortunately, we have those people in unions too and that hurts our cause.

 

[gret]

One shouldn't confuse a balanced approach with being anti-union. Extreme views on a matter are normally misguided.

The comment-

"But, I have nothing but contempt for those who openly declare their intention to scab, or those who hide their true union-busting natures behind the facade of reasonable debate and calm demeanor, and I will not apologize for attacking them."​

What's wrong with reasonable debate and a calm demeanor? Do you really think that Berkshire Hathaway would employ a "union buster" and take the risk of tainting their reputation? Doubtful as the company is a rounding error in the whole scheme of things.

Nobody is out to get ya!

 

[CALRepublic]

Personally, doesn't bother me a bit to have the anti-union folks here debating. The more they talk the more we know - "know your enemy....."

.

"enemy". that's a bit too dramatic

We have both anti and pro-union people here. But most of us are in the middle

People like me see a need for unions, CEOs (and/or management) will take away from employees whatever they can. The more the company saves, they more the company makes, the more they return to investors, the more brownie points they get.

But sometimes there is a need to go the extra mile to help the company but you can't because of a contract. Then I don't like unions as much.

I'll explain:

Landed in San Jose Costa Rica (13 hour duty day), we noticed a Falcon 2000 taxiing out, 10 minutes later, they came back to the FBO, they broke, flaps wouldn't operate.. My flying buddy and I called schedulling, we offered to do the flight, the scheduller said and I quote " Thanks but no thanks, if you do the flight it'd put you over 16 hours, and I don't feel like getting chewed out by the union"

They ferried a Citation X from Barbados, that was expensive, but more importnatly, the passengers were delayed 4 hours

So as far as unions go, I'm in the middle, like most

 

[CaveoFalco]

...... Do you really think that Berkshire Hathaway would employ a "union buster" and take the risk of tainting their reputation? Doubtful as the company is a rounding error in the whole scheme of things.

Nobody is out to get ya!

They have already done that multiple times and will continue to do so. In fact he has busted a Union going way back in history. Like most robber barons of the past 100 years, he gets others to do his dirty work for him, keeps a jovial/articulate/intelligent public face, gives his massive wealth back to foundations at the end, and then the takes his place in history as a benevolent benefactor.

 

[CaveoFalco]

"enemy". that's a bit too dramatic

That is a reference to a statement Sun Tzu in the Art of War and is often used in the business education literature. Here is the actual quote:

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."

No drama, just a relevant quote from history 6th Century BCE.

 

[fischman]

Do you really think that Berkshire Hathaway would employ a "union buster" and take the risk of tainting their reputation? Doubtful as the company is a rounding error in the whole scheme of things.

Nobody is out to get ya!

Yes. I do think they would hire a union buster. As a matter of fact, I think they have hired one. As a matter of fact, I think the CEO is one.

You are severely mistaken. They ARE out to get us. It is their job. It is their job to get the cheapest contract possible! Ask Cessna or Gulfstream. It is the union's job to get the best contract for the pilots. It's how business works. The only question is how long do they want to get the pilots and owners upset before they realize they aren't going to win??? Because we WILL get what the pilots want.

 

[gret]

Can hear your conviction by reading your words.

It's just hard to grasp the notion I guess.

Saw an interesting stat recently that said just 11% of the country's workforce was unionized and half of that was government workers. 6% of the private sector workforce belongs to a union...a 97 year low.

 

[Praetorian]

Can hear your conviction by reading your words.

It's just hard to grasp the notion I guess.

Saw an interesting stat recently that said just 11% of the country's workforce was unionized and half of that was government workers. 6% of the private sector workforce belongs to a union...a 97 year low.

And here we have if folks, the union-buster plying his trade. His objective is to apply doubt, fear and obfuscation.

It matters little that 11% if workers nationwide are unionized. The fact that over 90% of professional pilots are unionized is what matters.

 

[Praetorian]

Union Busters

Here is an educational piece about how Gret and his buds run things. Does any of this sound familiar?

http://inthesetimes.com/article/3326/unionbusting_confidential/