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Delta off runway at CMH

  • Thread starter Thread starter BEfly
  • Start date Start date
  • Watchers Watchers 18

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My last experience going into CMH, full 737-800, snowing, down to RVR measurments, braking action reports in effect, controller tries to slam dunk us to the 10L (the shorter north runway).

Negative, we want 10R. Controller says unable. We go around. My next response is we would like to hold until 10R IS available. Magically 10R becomes available. So glad we insisted on the longer runway. Airport conditions were crap.

The moral of the story is sometime we as pilots push ourselves too much to accommodate the controllers. I'm not saying this is the cause of the current event, but it did look wet and everyone who flies the 737 NG knows what a runway hog it is.
 
Jetjocky, how were the winds? A 737-800 already has artificially high approach/ref speeds, add a significant additive on a short(?) runway after a slam dunk approach and the margin of error gets thin real quick. I'm making no judgment on the crew, just want to get more information on the conditions at the time.
 
My story was back in December.

Today's radar loop http://www.wunderground.com/radar/radblast.asp?ID=CMH

Here are the last 18 hours of metars:
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191851Z 24019G28KT 10SM SCT035 OVC043 08/01 A2976 RMK AO2 PK WND 24031/1828 SLP076 T00780006[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191807Z 24021G30KT 10SM OVC030 07/02 A2974 RMK AO2 PK WND 23030/1759[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191751Z 26017G29KT 10SM BKN025 BKN032 OVC041 08/02 A2973 RMK AO2 PK WND 24032/1741 SLP065 60009 T00780017 10178 20067 51018[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191651Z 26021G27KT 10SM SCT019 BKN027 OVC033 07/02 A2971 RMK AO2 PK WND 25029/1641 SLP059 T00720022[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191551Z 25019G26KT 10SM OVC023 07/03 A2970 RMK AO2 PK WND 26030/1504 SLP055 T00670033[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191514Z 25020G26KT 10SM SCT013 OVC019 07/05 A2969 RMK AO2 PK WND 26030/1504[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191506Z 26021G30KT 10SM BKN014 OVC020 07/06 A2969 RMK AO2 PK WND 26030/1504[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191451Z 26021G26KT 6SM BR BKN016 OVC020 07/07 A2968 RMK AO2 PK WND 27029/1432 SLP046 60009 T00720072 51067[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191351Z 26015KT 10SM BKN021 BKN026 OVC031 08/08 A2962 RMK AO2 PK WND 29029/1256 RAE05 SLP025 P0000 T00830083[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191337Z 26012KT 10SM BKN017 BKN025 OVC031 09/08 A2960 RMK AO2 PK WND 29029/1256 RAE05 P0000[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191251Z 27016KT 6SM -RA BR BKN012 BKN017 OVC028 10/09 A2956 RMK AO2 PK WND 27036/1228 WSHFT 1203 SLP007 P0009 T01000089[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191247Z 28015G23KT 6SM -RA BR BKN012 BKN017 OVC028 10/09 A2956 RMK AO2 PK WND 27036/1228 WSHFT 1203 P0009[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191240Z 28019G28KT 2SM -RA BR BKN012 BKN017 OVC023 10/08 A2956 RMK AO2 PK WND 27036/1228 WSHFT 1203 P0009[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191225Z 29022G33KT 2SM -RA BR BKN008 OVC012 11/09 A2952 RMK AO2 PK WND 29033/1219 WSHFT 1203 P0007[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191219Z 28024G33KT 10SM -RA SCT008 BKN012 OVC100 12/11 A2952 RMK AO2 PK WND 29033/1219 WSHFT 1203 PRESRR P0006[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191154Z 19011KT 5SM RA BR BKN027 BKN038 OVC100 17/16 A2947 RMK AO2 WSHFT 1138 P0000[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191151Z 18013G22KT 5SM RA BR SCT027 BKN038 OVC110 18/16 A2947 RMK AO2 PK WND 24028/1135 WSHFT 1117 SLP973 P0021 60028 70028 T01780161 10233 20178 55012[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191144Z 20018G28KT 5SM RA BR FEW019 BKN033 OVC040 18/16 A2948 RMK AO2 PK WND 24028/1135 WSHFT 1117 P0019[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191132Z 26015G23KT 1 1/2SM +RA SCT029 BKN037 OVC045 18/16 A2949 RMK AO2 WSHFT 1117 PRESRR P0005[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 191051Z 16014G22KT 8SM -RA FEW050 SCT070 OVC095 19/15 A2944 RMK AO2 SLP963 P0006 T01890150[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 190951Z 19016G27KT 10SM -RA FEW050 SCT080 OVC100 21/14 A2951 RMK AO2 PK WND 18027/0943 RAB29 CIG 080 NW SLP983 P0001 T02110139[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 190851Z 16015G25KT 10SM SCT075 OVC110 23/12 A2951 RMK AO2 SLP984 T02280117 56036[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 190751Z 16018G23KT 10SM OVC130 23/11 A2953 RMK AO2 SLP993 T02280111[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 190651Z 16015G23KT 10SM OVC130 23/11 A2957 RMK AO2 PK WND 15026/0633 SLP004 T02280106[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 190551Z 17013G19KT 10SM OVC140 23/11 A2962 RMK AO2 SLP021 T02280111 10261 20228 56023[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 190451Z 17013G21KT 10SM OVC150 23/12 A2963 RMK AO2 SLP027 T02330122 403000161[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 190351Z 17010KT 10SM OVC150 24/13 A2966 RMK AO2 SLP038 T02390128[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 190251Z 17012KT 10SM OVC150 24/12 A2968 RMK AO2 SLP045 T02440122 58010[/FONT]
[FONT=Monospace,Courier]KCMH 190151Z 17010KT 10SM SCT110 OVC250 25/12 A2970 RMK AO2 SLP051 T02500122[/FONT]
 
Phrogs4ever said:
Jetjocky, how were the winds? A 737-800 already has artificially high approach/ref speeds, add a significant additive on a short(?) runway after a slam dunk approach and the margin of error gets thin real quick. I'm making no judgment on the crew, just want to get more information on the conditions at the time.
Click to expand...

Don't forget to add the time of the day...
 
Jetjockey said:
My last experience going into CMH, full 737-800, snowing, down to RVR measurments, braking action reports in effect, controller tries to slam dunk us to the 10L (the shorter north runway).

Negative, we want 10R. Controller says unable. We go around. My next response is we would like to hold until 10R IS available. Magically 10R becomes available. So glad we insisted on the longer runway. Airport conditions were crap.

The moral of the story is sometime we as pilots push ourselves too much to accommodate the controllers. I'm not saying this is the cause of the current event, but it did look wet and everyone who flies the 737 NG knows what a runway hog it is.
Click to expand...

Well played, good post.
Obviously it's safe to say this could happen to anyone. When you are very near minimum runway and surface limitations it doesn't take much to put you on the wrong side of the safety margin. A slightly higher gust and an unexpected slippery spot can come together at just the wrong time.
 
StopNTSing said:
Thanks. The difference is that this thread would run 12+ pages if it was a SWA jet.
Click to expand...

Well......do you think that may be because everyone has a story of a SWA crew taxing like a bat at of hell to try and cut in front of someone else or do you think everyone just picks on you?
 
Dan Roman said:
Well......do you think that may be because everyone has a story of a SWA crew taxing like a bat at of hell to try and cut in front of someone else or do you think everyone just picks on you?
Click to expand...

Well Dan-o, why don't you answer your own question? Your response would likely be highly representative of the sentiments of many around here....as steeped in obsolete cliches as they may be.
 
when I flew out of CMH (actually during one of their worse winters on record) on the A320 I had the misfortune to be slammed in on more than one occasion by their overly noise crazy ATC, and after the first lesson learned (interestingly while on IOE), I later began to use the little used term "unable" quite a bit more frequently with those controllers... one of the best parts of flying with my favorite captain.... I wish more captains learned that short word, it would save a lot of us from pucker factor approaches and the occasional "incident"

Remember, if pilots and airplanes didn't exist, there would be NO ATC.... if on the other hand no ATC existed, there still could be air travel... it may not be as safe, but it is proof that they're here for us, not us for them.
 
Delta Flight 1170 came to rest along the side of the north runway on the western side of the airport near the NetJets building shortly before 6:30


Ya know, if the Captain is getting close to retirement and wanted to introduce himself for a post-retirement gig, we still have 495 on furlough...and there are better ways to put in a resume.

Jusssss sayin'



Seriously, glad nobody got hurt.
 

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