New Southwest Domicile - ATL

[shagadelic]

Just got the email. Atlanta to open with 200 pilots in August 2013.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Hopefully this will ease a small amount of the pain that both sides are experiencing.

 

[Salukipilot4590]

Man, they give you guys a lot of heads up!

 

[SWA/FO]

Maybe the bitching will stop?................nah.

 

[ATLplt]

Maybe the bitching will stop?................nah.

Nope. Not for another 30 yrs or so.

 

[lorien]

Sweet

 

[Dan Roman]

Hopefully this will ease a small amount of the pain that both sides are experiencing.

Not if they don't give first priority to the AirTran pilots who were based there. If they have a situation were an AirTran pilot got displaced out and gets replaced by a SWA guy there you will be creating a nightmare.

 

[GoodTimes]

Grind that axe, Dan

 

[tankerhead]

What's the definition of seniority?

 

[Tripower455]

Not if they don't give first priority to the AirTran pilots who were based there. If they have a situation were an AirTran pilot got displaced out and gets replaced by a SWA guy there you will be creating a nightmare.

Oh, you mean like what's happening to the SW FO's right now?

 

[zippy32]

This whole thing is Steve Chase's fault.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Not if they don't give first priority to the AirTran pilots who were based there. If they have a situation were an AirTran pilot got displaced out and gets replaced by a SWA guy there you will be creating a nightmare.

AT pilots will not be getting displaced out of their AT domicile. When they transition to SWA they will get placed in a SWA domicile. There currently is not a SWA domicile in ATL. Therefore, they will bid and be awarded a domicile based on their seniority and vacancies. When ATL is opened up, every SWA pilot will be required to add ATL to their vacancy list. Once Jul '13 rolls around, they will announce who is awarded or displaced to ATL. Any new AT pilot coming over to the SWA side will bid accordingly. Again, they will be awarded what they can hold. So, there will not be any nightmare scenario like you are stating. This might actually be a good thing for AT/SWA alike.

But, thanks for your concern Mr. Roman!!!

 

[Dan Roman]

Grind that axe, Dan

Not in the least, before some SWA guys jumps in here and say I hate SWA, let me point out the reason I am so active on these merger strings. I work for Hawaiian so I think it's obvious why "smaller" airlines merging into larger airlines is of particular interest to me. Although the only realistic option out there is DAL and Lee Moak was in HNL and went on record dispelling that (I know I know, that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee). Nevertheless, it's a subject of great interest to me. Not so much at my seniority as much as concern for the whole seniority list.
So......back to the original thought on here. If an airline tried to buy HAL, displace pilots out of HNL and than replace those pilots there would be a firestorm. Fortunately there are enough protections to prevent that scenario, both geographically and politically that it is not a realistic concern, but it still is something I hate seeing happen to anyone else.

 

[Tripower455]

This is a plus for both sides IMHO......It'll get the transitioned AT ATL guys back home to ATL, and slow the defacto displacement of SW FOs in the east coast domiciles, particularly MCO......

 

[Dan Roman]

AT pilots will not be getting displaced out of their AT domicile. When they transition to SWA they will get placed in a SWA domicile. There currently is not a SWA domicile in ATL. Therefore, they will bid and be awarded a domicile based on their seniority and vacancies. When ATL is opened up, every SWA pilot will be required to add ATL to their vacancy list. Once Jul '13 rolls around, they will announce who is awarded or displaced to ATL. Any new AT pilot coming over to the SWA side will bid accordingly. Again, they will be awarded what they can hold. So, there will not be any nightmare scenario like you are stating. This might actually be a good thing for AT/SWA alike.

But, thanks for your concern Mr. Roman!!!

In other words the AirTran pilots brought ALL the ATL flying to the table but now it's being divided among the whole list?

 

[HA25]

Not in the least, before some SWA guys jumps in here and say I hate SWA, let me point out the reason I am so active on these merger strings. I work for Hawaiian so I think it's obvious why "smaller" airlines merging into larger airlines is of particular interest to me. Although the only realistic option out there is DAL and Lee Moak was in HNL and went on record dispelling that (I know I know, that and $2 will get you a cup of coffee). Nevertheless, it's a subject of great interest to me. Not so much at my seniority as much as concern for the whole seniority list.
So......back to the original thought on here. If an airline tried to buy HAL, displace pilots out of HNL and than replace those pilots there would be a firestorm. Fortunately there are enough protections to prevent that scenario, both geographically and politically that it is not a realistic concern, but it still is something I hate seeing happen to anyone else.

you and me both Dan... this too is why I follow them, even though I'm just the new guy at HAL and not the 2x year CA..

But honestly, the way I see it, is fences cure everything! IF we ever were bought or merged into another much larger carrier with many other bases, I expect that HNL will be only open as vacancies open up to outsiders.. OR any new and additional capacities added. There is a lot of precedent for this in prior mergers and acquisitions..

 

[ASADFW7]

Dan the same statement could be made for MDW, LAS, OAK, BWI, HOU, DAL, PHX, for the SWA crew bases. There is a whole country out there beyond ATL.

 

[HA25]

In other words the AirTran pilots brought ALL the ATL flying to the table but now it's being divided among the whole list?

yeah, but did you see the pay raise they got with that?

 

[FlyinGuy]

Dan, I think it is a little short sighted to say they (AT) brought something to the table, therefore, it is not open to the SWA pilots. So by your analysis, at the completion of all mergers every crewmember should only be able to bid/fly what their side had before the agreement. Should that include pay, vacation, 401K, etc.

 

[Lear70]

Oh boy, here we go... *sigh*

There is a lot of president for this in prior mergers and acquisitions..

As long as you're not bought by Southwest, you should be good with that. And the word is "precedent", by the way. (Sorry, couldn't resist)

The only good news here is that there will be an opportunity for more of our senior 717 CA's who bid 737 F/O to have access to the base when they start classes every month in Feb, mostly transitioning 717 pilots out of ATL.

That said, as of then, assuming there's 100 ATL F/O's in the vacancy, how many of our former AAI pilots will be able to hold it? My guess is about half, mostly former AAI CA's. The rest will be OSW.

I also don't see this helping MCO much. The incoming 737 CA's from MCO who just bid over (Jan class) and the upcoming class later in the Spring (which will probably coincide with the base opening in ATL) are mainly FL residents, as are the other guys who bid into the base this year, and MCO was a pretty senior base for us, especially CA's who will now be F/O's. The only thing that will bring SOME those guys out of MCO is a TPA base, virtual or otherwise.

At least we have a good idea when the last 2/3 of the MCO 737 draw-down will be. Right now ATL doesn't have the overnight traffic to justify the base, but if you pull the 737's for SJU out of MCO, you could easily base them in ATL and carry the SJU traffic out of all 3 bases for the last of the SJU transition to SWA flying. That flying comes from MCO, so I bet the draw-down of MCO coincides with that base opening.

It will be interesting to see what the DR outcome is for displacement rights for 717 pilots.

 

[HA25]

Oh boy, here we go... *sigh*



As long as you're not bought by Southwest, you should be good with that. And the word is "precedent", by the way. (Sorry, couldn't resist)
.

fixed it! Spelling never my strength... you should see how bad I'd be were it not for spellcheck.

I have some good friends at AT, don't get me wrong, Im all about doing the best for your pilot group, but a lot worse could have happened to AT than joining southwest. I remember back in the day in Concorse C when i was a smoker, I'd spend quite a bit of time in the "smoke room" talking to Value Jet/Airtran guys ... I remember the TWA rumors, I remember the ASA rumors! I also remember the time when we called it a lateral move to go from ASA to Airtran... the company had come a long way, but it was naive to think it was going to remain an independent airline for very long.. The airline industry is a natural oligopoly... it's just like it was pre-deregulation, only now it's deregulated.. STILL costs a fortune to run one and turn a profit!

 

[Lear70]

fixed it! Spelling never my strength... you should see how bad I'd be were it not for spellcheck.

I know, just messing with you, I don't usually play "spelling or grammar police".

I have some good friends at AT, don't get me wrong, Im all about doing the best for your pilot group, but a lot worse could have happened to AT than joining southwest. I remember back in the day in Concorse C when i was a smoker, I'd spend quite a bit of time in the "smoke room" talking to Value Jet/Airtran guys ... I remember the TWA rumors, I remember the ASA rumors! I also remember the time when we called it a lateral move to go from ASA to Airtran... the company had come a long way, but it was naive to think it was going to remain an independent airline for very long.. The airline industry is a natural oligopoly... it's just like it was pre-deregulation, only now it's deregulated.. STILL costs a fortune to run one and turn a profit!

Oh I know, but I'm not going to get into another debate of who wishes they had stayed stand-alone and why, we've beat that to death the last 48 hours.

Will make the best of it, just wish they'd have held off on opening the base until the majority of the 717 guys were over instead of the senior people getting skipped then not being able to get back into the base for a good long while. That WAS the plan initially, but I guess enough people kvetched that it would help "ease the pain" on this side of the partition, so they did it early, which actually hurts our guys stuck on the 717 who can't come over.

At least some of our CA's should be a little happier not having to commute when they cross.

 

[HA25]

I know, just messing with you, I don't usually play "spelling or grammar police".

I think us two ex-mods, on Michaels $hit list can at least go that dirty once in a while!

At least some of our CA's should be a little happier not having to commute when they cross.

a would be classmate of mine at American back in 2001 who is a CA at AT now told me there was a captain that was in his upgrade class there at AT who actually had a class date for southwest just before the merger... almost took it too, luck for him they cancelled it before they announced the merger and saved him from a lifetime of misery.

 

[vixin]

Just remember the vacancies at SWA fluctuate monthly. So the Sr AT guys should be able to get in eventually. Thus any RSW FO that wants to be in ATL may get displaced out and gave a hard time getting back in for sometime. I know SC did that when he stole all the CA seats.

 

[vixin]

a would be classmate of mine who is a CA at AT told me there was a captain there at AT who actually had a class date for southwest... almost took it too, luck for him they cancelled it before they announced the merger and saved him from a lifetime of misery.

Funny he wanted to be put on the bottom of the list before now his seniority is much better. Better to be lucky then good sometimes.

 

[roughneck]

It will be interesting to see what the DR outcome is for displacement rights for 717 pilots.

AirTran displacement rights are clearly spelled out in your CBA. The DR won't tell you how to administer your own contract. 717 displacements occur on the AirTran side and have no bearing as to any rights or perceived rights on the Southwest side of the fence. AirTran pilots are not considered displaced when they bid over to SWA.
Sorry Bud.

 

[Lear70]

AirTran displacement rights are clearly spelled out in your CBA. The DR won't tell you how to administer your own contract. 717 displacements occur on the AirTran side and have no bearing as to any rights or perceived rights on the Southwest side of the fence. AirTran pilots are not considered displaced when they bid over to SWA.
Sorry Bud.

We'll just let the arbitrator decide. Not going to get into a tit for tat with anyone about it. Had enough of that this week.

Merry Christmas to ya'! :beer:

 

[redflyer65]

This is a plus for both sides IMHO......It'll get the transitioned AT ATL guys back home to ATL, and slow the defacto displacement of SW FOs in the east coast domiciles, particularly MCO......

I agree. ANY east coast base will help. I'm not sure how much it will help MCO, but any relief for those wanting ATL/East Coast is welcomed in my book.

I hope the former AT guys that want it can hold it. It would be great for them to drive to work. Unfortunately they don't all live there, but definitely good news.

 

[Lear70]

I think us two ex-mods, on Michaels $hit list can at least go that dirty once in a while!

LOL - I heard THAT!

 

[Lear70]

I agree. ANY east coast base will help. I'm not sure how much it will help MCO, but any relief for those wanting ATL/East Coast is welcomed in my book.

I hope the former AT guys that want it can hold it. It would be great for them to drive to work. Unfortunately they don't all live there, but definitely good news.

About 70% of our ATL pilot group commutes, which means about 30% live there of about 1,000 or so pilots, that's 300 peeps. If the majority of them get back in, that should flesh the base out pretty well, even when it grows later on. Good news for them, once the dust settles and people get (mostly) where they want to be.

I'll be chasing the Int'l and longer-haul flying, whichever base east of the Mississippi has it.