Netjets Globals

[X-rated]

Does anyone know how NetJet’s customers are reacting the Global order? Clearly, the G650 is the top end the market these days, but it’s also quite a bit more expensive. Any idea what the Gulfstream owners think about the Global order? Anyone know how new Global shares are selling? Just curious if the G-faithful are embracing the change. My guess is owners will fall in love with the cabin once the Globals start hitting the line, but I’m wondering if anyone is hearing much from the customers one way or another.

 

[Pervis]

We'll see. First one arrives in CMH next week, and more than one full airframe has sold to date.

 

[johnsonrod]

An informal PM poll I had with several NJI Gulfstream pilots after the initial order showed they would have to be pulled "kicking and screaming" from their G450/550s. The pilots I talked to in the older GIVSPs seemed OK with the idea...

From what I have seen and read, that ProLine Fusion cockpit with the new HUD set-up on the Global looked very nice. Unfortunately, I'll never see that in my beat-up, dirty ERJ. :crying:

Will the soon-to-arrive Global be joined by others soon here in the States? How many Globals expected to arrive for the US operation over the next year or so? Will they directly replace Gulfstreams on a one-for-one basis?

 

[Partyfoul]

I'm sure it will walk on water, fly itself, and cross the world in luxury like none of NJ's owners have ever seen. Those Gulfstreams are antiquated anyway. Just ask any highly experienced pilot at NJ that doesn't fly one. I know NJ has lost G owners because of the switch. We shall see how the future pans out.

 

[SCT]

It will be interesting to see what the NJ Globals dispatch reliablity will be....

 

[G4dude]

It will be interesting to see what the NJ Globals dispatch reliablity will be....

I have asked 6 G owners so far about this, and they were ok with the Global. Not excited, but OK, as it is NetJets they are buying more than a particular airframe, to my surprise. I thought they would be more wedded to the Gs.

 

[G4dude]

It will be interesting to see what the NJ Globals dispatch reliablity will be....

I agree, we are not sure the Globals will do the job. Hoping for the best.

 

[SCT]

I only have limited experience with one new global but they seem to be very finicky and require a watchful maintenance department. Quite an airplane when everything is working properly, though. Maybe the fusion airplanes will be better.

 

[johnsonrod]

I wonder how many of those Gulfstream customers have actually flown on a Global? I realize Gulfstream customers are probably quite loyal - but the Globals I have personally toured are very roomy and probably compare quite favorably. Now reliability is another matter....

 

[brokeflyer]

they didnt buy them for range, room, reliability, ect. they bought them to get flexjet

 

[X-rated]

My experience is if you fly the Global every day it is very reliable. It doesn't like to sit for long periods which shouldn't be an issue at Netjets. I doubt it will ever be as reliable as the G's though. The good news is the plane has ridiculous redundancy, so there is plenty of MEL relief. Also, Like the Citation X, experience operating the plane will make it more reliable because you'll learn how to make the electronics behave when they act up.

There is no doubt it will be much heavier on the controls than a Gulfstream. It's a bit of a truck. On the plus side, you'll have quite a bit more room in the cockpit and galley area behind a closed galley door especially in the 6000.

Mostly, I was wondering what the owners are saying, and I'll also be curious what they say after they've had a chance to fly on the Globals.

I just recently ran across some pictures of NJA's interior spec. They did a great job; It's very nice. Good luck with them.

 

[BentOver]

Unfortunately I doubt they'll receive enough of them, and in any reasonable time frame, to put a dent in the # of a/c Netjets has lost in the last 3 years. Same goes for the Phenom..

It'll take 2 years just to get back to the # of a/c they had this past summer...(411 vs. 396 they're at now), and that's without losing anymore which doesn't look feasible.

 

[BentOver]

I think it's gonna be painfully obvious soon that NJA SIC's will be looking at 15+ year upgrades into a Phenom... Not good

 

[gutshotdraw]

Ask the question again in 18 months. By then, we'll know if Bombardier has delivered on their lofty promises to Netjets or....not.



Personally, I'm laying 3-1 on NOT.

 

[Jetz]

Ask the question again in 18 months. By then, we'll know if Bombardier has delivered on their lofty promises to Netjets or....not.



Personally, I'm laying 3-1 on NOT.

and then? Orders cancelled - GASP! :nuts:

 

[Pervis]

I sat down with a Global pilot a few weeks ago and the jet sounded quite impressive. It cruises comfortably at .85, and can do .89, which is probably how Netjets will fly them. This guy flew G's before, and had nothing but good things to say about them as well, but the Globals are far cheaper than Gulfstream. $60+ Million for a G650?

As far as dispatch reliability, look at the fleet status any given day under the Mobile Manager and you'll see the G is no more reliable than most others in the fleet. All are averaging between 50-70% day to day, including scheduled and unscheduled mx. For example, there are currently 20% of the IV/450 fleet down for unscheduled mx today, and 17% of the CE750's. Very few G's in scheduled mx today, and lots of X's, so overall percentage looks more favorable for the G fleet, but based upon unscheduled mx, the X is slightly more reliable-today. The numbers don't fluctuate all that much though. Reputation by WOM (word of mouth) can be different than the actual numbers. Hopefully the Global will be even better, but only time will tell.

 

[G4dude]

Unfortunately I doubt they'll receive enough of them, and in any reasonable time frame, to put a dent in the # of a/c Netjets has lost in the last 3 years. Same goes for the Phenom..

It'll take 2 years just to get back to the # of a/c they had this past summer...(411 vs. 396 they're at now), and that's without losing anymore which doesn't look feasible.

Yep, I agree. The Globals will just replace the Gulfstreams we sell as they age out, until the economy picks up. With the Fiscal Cliff coming in January, 2013 might be a rough year.

 

[X-rated]

It cruises comfortably at .85, and can do .89, which is probably how Netjets will fly them.

Ummm... doubt it. The airplane loves to fly at M.85, but if you want to fly M.89, you'd better get used to flying below FL350 because that's where MMO starts declining. MMO is .858 at 470 which is still plenty reasonable. We fly .85 all day long every day unless we are really trying to stretch the range. In that case, it's .83 slowing to .82, and for us, that's very rare. You'll also really see the the fuel flow increase above .85.

 

[G4dude]

Ummm... doubt it. The airplane loves to fly at M.85, but if you want to fly M.89, you'd better get used to flying below FL350 because that's where MMO starts declining. MMO is .858 at 470 which is still plenty reasonable. We fly .85 all day long every day unless we are really trying to stretch the range. In that case, it's .83 slowing to .82, and for us, that's very rare. You'll also really see the the fuel flow increase above .85.

We fly the V and 550 at .85, with similar considerations on longer than 5000 nm trips.

 

[CALRepublic]

Does anyone know how NetJet’s customers are reacting the Global order? Clearly, the G650 is the top end the market these days, but it’s also quite a bit more expensive. Any idea what the Gulfstream owners think about the Global order? Anyone know how new Global shares are selling? Just curious if the G-faithful are embracing the change. My guess is owners will fall in love with the cabin once the Globals start hitting the line, but I’m wondering if anyone is hearing much from the customers one way or another.

NO ONE here knows how the Globals are selling, and how the customers are reacting.

The former NJI guys love their Gulfstreams, they're mad at the company for going with Bombardier. So they're going to tell you all kinds of made up stories, " I talked to a passenger, blah, blah blah, BS BS BS"

All we can do is wait and see how it sells

 

[imacdog]

That's probably the best way to put it.

 

[atr42flyer]

just curious any news of them recalling guys ever?

 

[ExecJetCA]

My .02 cents worth of the Global vs. G is that we will have to wait and see how it all works out.

 

[OPECJet]

just curious any news of them recalling guys ever?

Heard 2015-2016 timeframe now. So, pretty much never.

 

[BentOver]

Heard 2015-2016 timeframe now. So, pretty much never.

yeah no kidding...

We were sent paperwork that said recalls starting in Summer 2012, then it was moved to 2013, then 2014 now even farther back.....For the next 3 years or so I'll be curious if resigning my number was a good move (self imposed timeframe).... As it stands right now it seems like it was.

 

[CRAWDADDY]

Well, looks like the company got who they want in the front seats will all of those supplemental duty bids. Should be well crewed for years and then they can displace all the G-Dudes into it (if the orders pick up) for the "foreseeable future."

 

[Pervis]

Well, looks like the company got who they want in the front seats will all of those supplemental duty bids. Should be well crewed for years and then they can displace all the G-Dudes into it (if the orders pick up) for the "foreseeable future."

Ten of eleven IP positions went to NJA originals. One of two CP's are from the X. We've had 13 open bids to date. So far it's been quite fair. That said, there is little doubt when Gulfstreams are formerly placed in disposal, they will be offered Globals. Keep in mind though that many big G pilots are crossovers from NJA before the integration took place.

 

[Lord Wakefield]

Ten of eleven IP positions went to NJA originals. One of two CP's are from the X. We've had 13 open bids to date. So far it's been quite fair. That said, there is little doubt when Gulfstreams are formerly placed in disposal, they will be offered Globals. Keep in mind though that many big G pilots are crossovers from NJA before the integration took place.

I think he meant they took pilots for positions that weren't awarded strictly by seniority. To me, it seems like an awful lot of IP positions for so few planes and only one or two small bids for line captains.

How many crossed over to NJI and how many came back via the Global?

 

[Pervis]

I think he meant they took pilots for positions that weren't awarded strictly by seniority. To me, it seems like an awful lot of IP positions for so few planes and only one or two small bids for line captains.

How many crossed over to NJI and how many came back via the Global?

SDP positions have never been awarded by seniority and the CBA does not require it. None of the awards to date have been cross over pilots, but rather very senior NJA originals. The first open bid went to number one, who came out of the CE680 I believe.

 

[NachoMamma]

Well, looks like the company got who they want in the front seats will all of those supplemental duty bids. Should be well crewed for years and then they can displace all the G-Dudes into it (if the orders pick up) for the "foreseeable future."

If the IV goes into disposal after the new contract is negotiated, then displacing junior IV folks into the Global won't happen. The union is going to insist on displacement language this time that will prevent that. Soon, you will only be allowed into a seat you could have otherwise held...as it should be.