What the hell is a 9E legacy pilot?!?!?

[1.3XVso]

Can someone please tell me wtf is a 9E legacy pilot?

 

[SpauldingSmails]

An American, United, or Delta pilot who wears a slightly wider than normal size 9 shoe.

 

[labbats]

Kit Darby

 

[altimaklr]

Someone actually hired by Pinnacle.

Legacy CA: Placeholder for displaced Colgan and Mesaba SF3 CA's
Legacy FO: Un-Paid IOE pilot for displaced Colgan and Mesaba SF3 CA's

 

[Flyprdu]

Someone actually hired by Pinnacle.

Legacy CA: Placeholder for displaced Colgan and Mesaba SF3 CA's
Legacy FO: Un-Paid IOE pilot for displaced Colgan and Mesaba SF3 CA's

Love this.

 

[xjhawk]

Someone actually hired by Pinnacle.

Legacy CA: Placeholder for displaced Colgan and Mesaba SF3 CA's
Legacy FO: Un-Paid IOE pilot for displaced Colgan and Mesaba SF3 CA's

Very funny. But I must say that it is not lost by many of us former "Saab Captains" (Block category 3 mesaba-I have been on the jet for 5 years) that my old seniority number would have almost been hight enough to hold Jet captain if we had remained separate. Oh in case you are clueless on this point. With the new Delta pilot contract (crj 200's will be gone)and the parking of all the Colgan Q's and Saabs and 9E 900's because of Pinnacle's inept management most of Mesaba's pilots would have been watching as all Colgan and Pinnacle pilots were on the street while their planes disappeared. But in ALPA's Block award now I will be on the street while my seniority was given to Pinnacle and Colgan captains. Mark my words that at Pinnacle there will only be the Mesaba 900's flying by 2015. I laughed at the last union meeting I attended when they said we were better off united instead of being three separate pilot groups. Better for who i ask? Not for me or many of the other Mesaba pilots (except category 1, they are the untouchables)

 

[bri5150]

Much like Mesaba wouldn't survive as a 49 Saab airline, Pinnacle won't survive as a 40ish 900 airline. While I share your sentiments xjhawk, I bet Pinnacle will get a ratio to replace 200's. Still not good, but better than just the Mesaba 900's. I think its funny that "Legacy 9e" stands to lose more aircraft than Mesaba and Colgan combined when all is said and done. Especially after all this "we saved your job" crap that is currently being spewed. I remember the good ole arguments during sli that "9e legacy" pilots were saying the 200's were "locked in" until 2017. Ahhh, the good old days.

 

[DoinTime]

Very funny. But I must say that it is not lost by many of us former "Saab Captains" (Block category 3 mesaba-I have been on the jet for 5 years) that my old seniority number would have almost been hight enough to hold Jet captain if we had remained separate. Oh in case you are clueless on this point. With the new Delta pilot contract (crj 200's will be gone)and the parking of all the Colgan Q's and Saabs and 9E 900's because of Pinnacle's inept management most of Mesaba's pilots would have been watching as all Colgan and Pinnacle pilots were on the street while their planes disappeared. But in ALPA's Block award now I will be on the street while my seniority was given to Pinnacle and Colgan captains. Mark my words that at Pinnacle there will only be the Mesaba 900's flying by 2015. I laughed at the last union meeting I attended when they said we were better off united instead of being three separate pilot groups. Better for who i ask? Not for me or many of the other Mesaba pilots (except category 1, they are the untouchables)

Would you like some cheese with that whine? Seriously, its getting old.

 

[Flyer1015]

Much like Mesaba wouldn't survive as a 49 Saab airline, Pinnacle won't survive as a 40ish 900 airline. While I share your sentiments xjhawk, I bet Pinnacle will get a ratio to replace 200's. Still not good, but better than just the Mesaba 900's. I think its funny that "Legacy 9e" stands to lose more aircraft than Mesaba and Colgan combined when all is said and done. Especially after all this "we saved your job" crap that is currently being spewed.

Yes, but you can't say that proportionately speaking. For example, Colgan is outright disappearing. Proportionately, that is a 100% loss of flying at Colgan. So what if it's only 60 turboprops total that are gone? The net loss is 100% of the entire operation. I believe Mesaba lost 39 Saabs, while keeping 41+19 = 60 CRJs. 60/99 = about a 40% loss of total fleet. So far, the only guaranteed Pinnacle cut is 16 CRJs out of 157. The -200 cuts will be massive, but the exact amount isn't known. Proportionately, Pinnacle pilots have so far had the least fleet cuts. In fact, the first CRJ hasn't even left property yet, and won't until Jan 2013 when the first ATL CRJ-900 leaves. But as of September this year, all Mesaba Saabs, all Colgan Saabs, and all Colgan Qs are already gone. IMO, that's a difference worth nothing.

I remember the good ole arguments during sli that "9e legacy" pilots were saying the 200's were "locked in" until 2017. Ahhh, the good old days.

Nothing is "locked in" when it comes to Delta! My points were only regarding short term lookout. I never dared for the long term, but I knew that 2017 was the latest deadline for the CRJ-200s. Short term, Mesaba Saab pilots, Colgan Saab pilots, and now Colgan Q pilots are all being absorbed by Pinnacle aircraft at a loss of current Pinnacle pilot positions.

The real question is, will the quota be held true for displacements? If so, Mesaba's most junior Captain will be physically junior than other 9E -900 captains losing their ATL base. "No pilot may be awarded or displaced unless mesaba maintains 279 CRJ-900 Captain positions......"

I think the wording is pretty clear, and this isn't going to go well!

 

[Flyer1015]

Would you like some cheese with that whine? Seriously, its getting old.

He's got a point. Even at 9E, I recognized that the Mesaba pilots DOH 2002-2004 got screwed in the SLI.

 

[bri5150]

Yes, but you can't say that proportionately speaking. For example, Colgan is outright disappearing. Proportionately, that is a 100% loss of flying at Colgan. So what if it's only 60 turboprops total that are gone? The net loss is 100% of the entire operation. I believe Mesaba lost 39 Saabs, while keeping 41+19 = 60 CRJs. 60/99 = about a 40% loss of total fleet. So far, the only guaranteed Pinnacle cut is 16 CRJs out of 157. The -200 cuts will be massive, but the exact amount isn't known. Proportionately, Pinnacle pilots have so far had the least fleet cuts. In fact, the first CRJ hasn't even left property yet, and won't until Jan 2013 when the first ATL CRJ-900 leaves. But as of September this year, all Mesaba Saabs, all Colgan Saabs, and all Colgan Qs are already gone. IMO, that's a difference worth nothing.


Nothing is "locked in" when it comes to Delta! My points were only regarding short term lookout. I never dared for the long term, but I knew that 2017 was the latest deadline for the CRJ-200s. Short term, Mesaba Saab pilots, Colgan Saab pilots, and now Colgan Q pilots are all being absorbed by Pinnacle aircraft at a loss of current Pinnacle pilot positions.

The real question is, will the quota be held true for displacements? If so, Mesaba's most junior Captain will be physically junior than other 9E -900 captains losing their ATL base. "No pilot may be awarded or displaced unless mesaba maintains 279 CRJ-900 Captain positions......"

I think the wording is pretty clear, and this isn't going to go well!

I am so misty eyed with reminiscing...

Here's to being on the same team (almost anyways) in a much better situation. :beer:

 

[xjhawk]

Oh Flyer-so young and so out of touch. Read the Delta contract and do some simple math. Delta can only keep 125 50 seat aircraft by the end of 2015. ASA and Skywest (same company for negotiation standpoint) have hard, locked in contracts at two major Delta hubs that they have to do most of the flying at (ATL and SLC). Those two have what, 150 crj's flying for Delta. Already Skywest has expressed that they do not want to prematurely park their 50 seaters for a reduced number of 76 seaters. Pinnacle has what, 140 50 seaters? Pinnacle will be lucky to get any of the 76 seaters that are included in the Delta contract and will be lucky to be able to keep 25 CRJ 200's. Who do you think has the most leverage to keep their 50 seaters and lose only a few? Not Pinnacle, I can assure you of that. Delta is the DIP financer in the bankruptcy, they control the shots. Delta needs to make 50 seat cuts-

Now back to your point-the only planes left will be old mesaba ones. Get this through your former pinnacle "feel sorry for us as we are carrying the SAab captains at Mesaba and colgans on our backs" or "they took our upgrades and our jobs". Without Mesaba's 900's every Pinnacle pilot would be on the street-that is not lost on all of us but are we shouting it? No, it was all of your guys who wanted to leave Colgan hanging and suggesting on conference calls that they just be let go with the planes. Where is that suggestion now that every 200 is on the block? Oh and I might add that with my old seniority number, before SLI I would have kept a job and with the flows been close to my captain position. Now I am 700-800 numbers away from keeping any job come 2015.

You need to stick to commenting on those spiffy new uniforms you guys will be wearing over there Your argument about the poor 9E pilots is getting old-how about the poor XJ FO's? or the Colgan pilots who will lose their job? There is not one Mesaba pilot that wished this to happen. many disagreed with or was dupped by the union into agreeing that a combined SLI was the best deal. All would have wished to go at it alone once the dust settled. I am sick of hearing ALPA tell me about how their financial experts say this bankruptcy is the real thing. Well how about the financial experts and their evaluation of the company during the merger? Now they say they were lied too? Nothing they say hold water to me anymore. Nothing.

Some things ALPA should have known pre SLI
1. Colgan and ATL flying was all unprofitable and would drag the company down-Block should have been informed of that and adjusted his "award" accordingly.
2. That all the cards should have been shown to the members when voting on merger/contract/SLI. Not the lies we were told.
there is more...but I am busy

 

[Flyer1015]

I am so misty eyed with reminiscing...

Here's to being on the same team (almost anyways) in a much better situation. :beer:

LOL! I'll :beer: to that!

 

[Flyer1015]

Oh Flyer-so young and so out of touch. Read the Delta contract and do some simple math. Delta can only keep 125 50 seat aircraft by the end of 2015. ASA and Skywest (same company for negotiation standpoint) have hard, locked in contracts at two major Delta hubs that they have to do most of the flying at (ATL and SLC). Those two have what, 150 crj's flying for Delta. Already Skywest has expressed that they do not want to prematurely park their 50 seaters for a reduced number of 76 seaters. Pinnacle has what, 140 50 seaters? Pinnacle will be lucky to get any of the 76 seaters that are included in the Delta contract and will be lucky to be able to keep 25 CRJ 200's. Who do you think has the most leverage to keep their 50 seaters and lose only a few? Not Pinnacle, I can assure you of that. Delta is the DIP financer in the bankruptcy, they control the shots. Delta needs to make 50 seat cuts-

I know they have to be down to 125 -200s total. How many are there now? Yes, Pinnacle and Comair will be hit hard. Is that enough for the 125 total left? I need to see what each DCI carrier has. Also, I'm not up to speed on Skywest/ASA's specific ATL/SLC deal. Does that link -200s? Or just that a certain amount of DCI flying at ATL or SLC has to be Skywest?

Now back to your point-the only planes left will be old mesaba ones.

You're saying only 41 CRJ-900s will be left? That is a distinct possibility, but if Pinnacle's costs (re: labor) are shed enough through the BK process, they might get some more -900s.

Get this through your former pinnacle "feel sorry for us as we are carrying the SAab captains at Mesaba and colgans on our backs" or "they took our upgrades and our jobs". Without Mesaba's 900's every Pinnacle pilot would be on the street-that is not lost on all of us but are we shouting it?

I will agree with the above once 2015 rolls around. But as of right now, it is only "without Pinnacle Inc's jets, every Colgan pilot would be on the street." And at this point, is anyone shouting anything anymore? Most have realized the $%^& has hit the fan and need to leave ASAP at the first opportunity.

No, it was all of your guys who wanted to leave Colgan hanging and suggesting on conference calls that they just be let go with the planes. Where is that suggestion now that every 200 is on the block? Oh and I might add that with my old seniority number, before SLI I would have kept a job and with the flows been close to my captain position. Now I am 700-800 numbers away from keeping any job come 2015.

Colgan pilots can't just be let go with one ISL. Unless you're referring to out of seniority furloughs? But no precedence has been set yet. I agree with your post above.

You need to stick to commenting on those spiffy new uniforms you guys will be wearing over there

Haven't gotten it yet, but looking forward to it! I wanna see what the fuss is about.

Your argument about the poor 9E pilots is getting old-how about the poor XJ FO's? or the Colgan pilots who will lose their job? There is not one Mesaba pilot that wished this to happen. many disagreed with or was dupped by the union into agreeing that a combined SLI was the best deal.

All would have wished to go at it alone once the dust settled. I am sick of hearing ALPA tell me about how their financial experts say this bankruptcy is the real thing. Well how about the financial experts and their evaluation of the company during the merger? Now they say they were lied too? Nothing they say hold water to me anymore. Nothing.

Yikes! I know you're busy but I hope at some point you do tell when you have the time.

Some things ALPA should have known pre SLI
1. Colgan and ATL flying was all unprofitable and would drag the company down-Block should have been informed of that and adjusted his "award" accordingly.

Why didn't they know the above? Management never shared that info?

2. That all the cards should have been shown to the members when voting on merger/contract/SLI. Not the lies we were told.
there is more...but I am busy

Lies from management or the union?

 

[DoinTime]

He's got a point. Even at 9E, I recognized that the Mesaba pilots DOH 2002-2004 got screwed in the SLI.

He did have a point....the first 1000 times he said it. Nobody ever does as well as they hope in seniority integration. That's just the name of the game. Get over it.

 

[bri5150]

He did have a point....the first 1000 times he said it. Nobody ever does as well as they hope in seniority integration. That's just the name of the game. Get over it.

You are obviously not on airlinkpilots.com. It is definetly not the ex-Mesaba pilots that need to "get over it". Some of the talk there is downright childish.

 

[xjhawk]

How can I get over it? Oh yeah, leave. That was my plan to begin with and I only bring it up when others bring it up. I respect flyers opinion even if I do not agree with some of the things he says-I actually admire him for being able to jump ship when he did. My points about the union was that we were led down a path and told that SLI was the best option for our careers. If they did not have access to the health of all three parts of the Pinnacle puzzle they never should have said it was the best thing for us. When it is evident that they did not know-what they knew was it was best for the ultra senior-and that is all that mattered.

This is for you doing time-i am sick of dealing with it and want to stop making my point. But when its evident that there are some who lack the knowledge of what really happened.

But where we sit now is if you do not have an seniority number greater than 450 than you should probably be looking for somewhere else to work. Some people actually think Pinnacle is a candidate for the 2:1 ratio for turning in 200's for 900's. I think they need to take a hard look at Skywest and ASA, their management does not want to lose their 200's for a less amount of 900's for Delta and they have ASA contracts, owned gates, and in the case of ASA at ATL-80% of the regional lift out of there. Delta does not need to negotiate with Pinnacle to remove 200's-they just need to make them unprofitable and then tell their cronies that are now in charge to go to the bankruptcy judge and say they are unprofitable so they need to be parked. It seems to be going that way now-as the ASA has already been renegotiated with Delta and the company has said the loss of the 200's is now a part of their future business plan. So Delta will use those new 76 seaters from the Delta contract as a carrot to negotiate with Skywest corporation.

If the rumors are true about Comair, those 70-76 seaters will also be used as a carrot and get rid of extremely senior pilots and an entire management team. I hate to say this, but that is the only way Pinnacle will have more than 500 pilots in 2015