DAL TA as per Council 20 Chair Tom Tucker

[waveflyer]

More money for larger RJs. Got it.

Exactly. DALPA just doesn't get it.

 

[PCL_128]

Your idea that a permissive bargaining item means every airline can always expand scope is invalid.

That has never been my argument. You clearly don't understand basic areas of labor law such as permissive and mandatory subjects of bargaining.

 

[waveflyer]

Enlighten me with your wisdom.

Why does ALPA HAVE to outsource more -900's than it had agreed on in bk?

 

[redflyer65]

Because the whole idea of larger RJs are a complete ruse to get exactly what DL management wants.

1- They are tied directly to those 50 seaters, with engine replacement cost on the immediate horizon. They get a free pass here.

2- They want larger RJs. They get them under the cover of less economic viabiltiy of the smaller RJs. PS - they are gone anyway!

3- They pay for any pay rate increase by reducing the Profit Sharing. Are you kidding me?

Wow.

 

[General Lee]

Because the whole idea of larger RJs are a complete ruse to get exactly what DL management wants.

1- They are tied directly to those 50 seaters, with engine replacement cost on the immediate horizon. They get a free pass here.

2- They want larger RJs. They get them under the cover of less economic viabiltiy of the smaller RJs. PS - they are gone anyway!

3- They pay for any pay rate increase by reducing the Profit Sharing. Are you kidding me?

Wow.

Not exactly right, and you know that if this TA passes. The leases on the 50 seaters go on for years, so this is a chance to get rid of them sooner, and to get 1 newer 76 seater for essentially 3 older 50 seaters. That is a good deal. If they don't do this, they keep the 50s for years. This gets rid of them sooner, which is better for all of us. The profit sharing cutback does NOT go into effect until the Spring of 2014 (next Febuary 14th there will still be the same percentage amount--15% as the past two years), and if there are profits exceeding $2.5 billion (pre tax), then the profit sharing GROWS to 20%, instead of reducing from 15% to 10%. In the meantime, the pay rates were increased by 2.5% (from 6% to 8.5%, year 1 of the 3 year contract) this upcoming Jan 1st to make sure that even if there are NO profits coming up, there will still be extra money for the pilots each year, so it locks in a guaranteed "profit" each year, instead of hoping there is one. Someday you may understand.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[redflyer65]

Are you serious General? You sound like Delta legal here.

You know those 50's are up to be re-engined as has been documented on here many, many times. The ruse from Delta is they need to get larger RJs while Bombardier is willing. You guys are taking it hook, line and sinker brother.

I can't believe you are even trying to defend it. You've reached a new low.

 

[General Lee]

Are you serious General? You sound like Delta legal here.

You know those 50's are up to be re-engined as has been documented on here many, many times. The ruse from Delta is they need to get larger RJs while Bombardier is willing. You guys are taking it hook, line and sinker brother.

I can't believe you are even trying to defend it. You've reached a new low.

Delta legal? What? Talk about an all time low. That stagnation over there is killing you. There may infact be re-engine costs, and some could be a cost for Delta, which is a good reason to do the deal. I don't know exactly how much would be required by Delta to be paid each year, but instead the DL pilots get $400 million per year in pay and work rule/benefit increases, instead of that money going to pay for those engines. I think that is a great thing, instead of waiting longer for normal section 6 talks. So, we get paid more, and a bunch of RJs leave (more leave than arrive). Nothing to defend here, it's business. You and Wave can go enjoy your stagnation in LBB while you're at it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

Except you set in stone a precedent that large network carriers outsource -900's. What about that GL?

 

[waveflyer]

Except you set in stone a precedent that large network carriers outsource -900's. What about that GL?

You were viewing the thread when I posted this question General....
Scared to answer? Busy spending that new raise?
Ooh General's goin to Sizzler!

 

[redflyer65]

Maybe getting the Surf and Turf.

I'm sure his wife will pay because she has the money.

 

[Flybywire44]

Delta legal? What? Talk about an all time low. That stagnation over there is killing you. There may infact be re-engine costs, and some could be a cost for Delta, which is a good reason to do the deal. I don't know exactly how much would be required by Delta to be paid each year, but instead the DL pilots get $400 million per year in pay and work rule/benefit increases, instead of that money going to pay for those engines. I think that is a great thing, instead of waiting longer for normal section 6 talks. So, we get paid more, and a bunch of RJs leave (more leave than arrive). Nothing to defend here, it's business. You and Wave can go enjoy your stagnation in LBB while you're at it.


Bye Bye---General Lee

General Lee,

Delta would find a way if they wanted out of regional flying. Look at what they did to Mesa. Delta deceptivly asked them to cancel flights and then dropped their contract for not meeting completion factor clauses.

ALPA should have bargained based on the value of allowing Delta to continue destroying regional contract pilot career expectations through an artificial seniority reset. How much is lost regional pilot seniority and the regional contract whipsaw worth to Delta? How much is it worth to you General Lee?

Delta could place all future 76 seats on their certificate, buy the 717s and focus hiring pilots from specific regionals. Hiring 500 pilots from XYZ regional would make them fail to meet their completion factor. Contract voided. Delta would never do this because it would be to expensive.

You're giving DAL an inch today, but AMR/US/UAL may give a mile tomorrow. Parker wants 84 seat scope. We'll soon learn what APA sending to it's pilots to vote on.

You may have reduced the number of regional aircraft in the Delta fleet, but you've preserved the regional business model. When do we as Legacy pilots stop the trend of outsourcing our flying.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Delta will let the cat out of the bag again with the -900s just like they did with the 50's in 1992....

 

[redflyer65]

Delta will let the cat out of the bag again with the -900s just like they did with the 50's in 1992....

You nailed it. Next time around they are going to say these new 76 seaters aren't profitable, so we need relief on 100 seaters to make it work. DALPA will buy off on it. They can't say NO. Delta knows it.

 

[BigMeat]

At continental/united the delta guys made it alot harder to protect and bargain for the 50 seat scope limit. If they want 76 seats mainline can fly them. Thanks Delta!

 

[General Lee]

Except you set in stone a precedent that large network carriers outsource -900's. What about that GL?

Wave,

Have you seen AA's TA? It's worse than DL's by far, with even larger RJs permitted, and this was agreed upon (in a TA) before ours was voted upon. Your opinion?


Bye Bye---General Lee