FAA should think twice about not having a retirement rule in 135 flying

[t-bone]

With all due respect to that whipper Snapper T-Bone, I'm only 44, and he's catching up FAST!

Unless you're dead, how am I catching up? ;-)

 

[pilotyip]

Unless you're dead, how am I catching up? ;-)

it is a math thing % of age, on my sisters 1st B'day, I was 1000% older than her, she was born 10 years after me. On her 10th B'day I was only 100% older than her, and this year I am only a 17% older than her.

 

[t-bone]

it is a math thing % of age, on my sisters 1st B'day, I was 1000% older than her, she was born 10 years after me. On her 10th B'day I was only 100% older than her, and this year I am only a 17% older than her.

Ahh yes...makes perfect sense. I never was very good at math

 

[gunfyter]

Or like a penalty in football ... half the distance to the goal

 

["v"]

QUOTE=cldsfr79;2304694]I never said my "research" was scientific. Scientific research would take months and I sure wouldn't post it here. I spent 20 minutes searching "pilot incapacitation" in the NTSB report and found an overwhelming number of pilots above 60 who have passed while flying. That's how simple it is; I didn't bias the info, I just looked at what came up. I just posted what I found. I know the rough data hurts. There are not enough young guys passing to out way the older ones.

In regards to experience and age. Yes, there have been studies that show that older pilots have similar reaction time as younger new pilots when faced with a new situation. The older pilot reflects upon what experience they have had to deal with the situation while the inexperienced pilot has to mentally review their training to determine an out come. A strange thing happens though as the young pilot gains experience. He then becomes faster because of his training and experience while the older pilot begins to struggle because with age the mind has trouble retaining and learning new information as well as the processing time of the mind begins to slow. An example is why a 5 year old can learn both spanish and english with ease while some one older struggles with remembering the lessons.[/QUOTE]

So here's a problem. What about the "older" captains who have some serious experience, good crm and are still sharp as a whip. The blanket statement of "all pilots should retire at age X because they arent as sharp as they used to be" doesnt really work because those guys who can still fly the hell out of the aircraft are worth their weight in gold for mentoring the new guys. If this is a key factor in accidents then your class 1 medical should be tougher to account for the effects of age, progressive simulator training would be benneficial for all 135 pilots regardless of age rather than doing the same checkride year in and year out.

It would be a shame to see these guys pushed out of the cockpit because of others who (for whatever reason) arent fit to fly.

And i am not one of the older pilot types (by a long shot!)

 

[rettofly]

I never made a mistake until my 65th birthday. All my check rides were flawless. Every flight was perfect.

I suddenly found myself to be error prone, but it wasn't until three months before my 68th birthday that I realized I was becoming a menace to aviation. (Navy guys: does the term "dilbert" ring a bell?)

Once I recognized that I was hopelessly descending into the valley of errors, I told my CP that I would retire after working through the grace period on my last 6-month check, three weeks after I attained the decrepit age of 68. He was disappointed, but he got over it.

That was two years ago. Now I'm an instructor and check pilot with the Civil Air Patrol. I haven't killed anyone yet with my age-diminished skills and judgment, and Idon't see it happening any time soon.

Now that I'm out of the way, some young studs are able to turn to the left for guidance and see only their reflection in the side window. Good luck with that.

 

[X-rated]

Ahh yes...makes perfect sense. I never was very good at math

Think of it this way. When we met, the difference in our ages was about half of your lifetime. Today, the difference in our ages is about a quarter of your lifetime. If that trend continues, pretty soon you'll be older than me!

 

[Jack Campbell]

Now that I'm out of the way, some young studs are able to turn to the left for guidance and see only their reflection in the side window. Good luck with that.

Your comment smacks of pompous sarcasm. I wonder how many captains said the same about you when you before you moved to the left seat.

 

[gret]

The comment was insightful and foretelling...not pompous or sarcastic.

 

[rettofly]

Your comment smacks of pompous sarcasm. I wonder how many captains said the same about you when you before you moved to the left seat.

I see you caught on to my point.

My comment is not nearly as pompous and sarcastic as some of the comments I've heard (and seen posted) over the years from the young stallions champing at the bit to get the geezers out of the way.

For what it's worth, there were plenty of times when I was happy to learn from the guy or "gal" in the left seat. Since I got a late start, many of them were younger than I. It's called CRM and mentoring.

 

[fugazi]

I know most of you guys are a bunch of sensitive PC tree huggin liberals But, forget about these blue hairs; how about addressing the real problem?!?!WIA, that's right..Women in aviation. Theyre Less than 10% of the pilot force but, in more than 75% of accidents. Not to mention, think of all those empty kitchens and hungry husbands/life partners. Im sure a few are a good stick; I've never met one! Discuss.

 

[Sparse]

Here we go with another age battle.

I decided to look through the NTSB archives in accidents involving pilot incapacitation. Search included dates from 1993 to present and for the search criteria I just typed "pilot incapacitation". Reports involved all categories of aircraft including helicopters. I found over 50+ incidents of pilot incapacitation.

And what were the results? The vast majority of incidents showed pilots of the age 60+ dying in flight do to heart attacks and strokes. Many accidents sited undiagonsied issues. I'm glad the AME doctor "Dr. Handshake" does a great job. To bad the primary care doctors aren't used when you get older to find health issues. There was another sizable percentage of pilots over the age of 50 dying in flight. And how about the young pilots (under the age of 40)? Less than a handful. I guess the myth about older people not having health issues has been settled.

And this search doesn't include pilots of the age 60+ who were spatially disoriented, confused or using poor decision making (definitions used by the NTSB as contributing factors to an accident).

This is the stuff that keeps me up at night.

One accident that involves a pilot, who was 66, said to the controller "my defibrillator just went off on me."....the pilot declared "mayday" and reported that he was losing his eyesight.

Or the 64 year old instructor who had a seizure due to a brain swell from undiagnosed cancer. Sadly the NTSB concluded that his seizing body blocked the flight controls and the student was unable to recover the plane.

Speaking honestly and not humorously, I do worry about the guy sitting next to me who is in their late 60s. I hope he is healthy, that he isn't hiding health problems, and that he doesn't slump against the controls on short final if he passes.

Does the FAA deny that there is a problem or issue? Yes. I have been active in writing the FAA and senators about the issue. All the replies are that the FAA says pilots, regardless of age, are healthy, fit, and have no issues. They went on to say that elderly individuals as a whole have no problem with motor skills, memory, or cognitive activity. Going on, the FAA says that they will catch those who hide medical problems. Further, they say that they don't have any intention of ever having a retirement age for part 135 flying. I'm glad that the FAA doesn't have a "tombstone" mentality about regulating and that they read medical journals about aging individuals.

Again, not joking: We'll have to wait until a high profile accident that takes out a famous person or politician which involves pilots well over 65 to have any type of change. I can see it now: Wolf Blitzer in the Situation room running the story, "Elderly pilots flying high performance turbojets...are we safe"?

worrying about the guy across the aisle like this indicates to me you have a lack of confidence in your own abilities to handle the situation. I agree about your concerns if it is single pilot or an instructor, but two pilot operations go hand in hand with two engine operations. You have two for a reason. And your comment about elderly pilots flying high performance jet? I have 38 years experience flying high performance jets and I have to watch the young bucks like a hawk.

 

[OPECJet]

I know most of you guys are a bunch of sensitive PC tree huggin liberals But, forget about these blue hairs; how about addressing the real problem?!?!WIA, that's right..Women in aviation. Theyre Less than 10% of the pilot force but, in more than 75% of accidents. Not to mention, think of all those empty kitchens and hungry husbands/life partners. Im sure a few are a good stick; I've never met one! Discuss.

If she's not in the kitchen, she's not putting arsenic in my dinner.

I've flown with plenty of women. All but a couple were OK. Probably about the same "good stick" to "crash / violation looking for a place to happen" ratio.

I just don't let them drive the rental car.

 

[gunfyter]

AIG Chief Sees Retirement Age as High as 80 After Crisis

American International Group Inc. (AIG) Chief Executive Officer Robert Benmosche said Europe’s debt crisis shows governments worldwide must accept that people will have to work more years as life expectancies increase.
“Retirement ages will have to move to 70, 80 years old,” Benmosche, who turned 68 last week, said during a weekend interview at his seaside villa in Dubrovnik, Croatia. “That would make pensions, medical services more affordable. They will keep people working longer and will take that burden off of the youth.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...etirement-age-as-high-as-80-after-crisis.html

 

[DirtyBeech]

I know most of you guys are a bunch of sensitive PC tree huggin liberals But, forget about these blue hairs; how about addressing the real problem?!?!WIA, that's right..Women in aviation. Theyre Less than 10% of the pilot force but, in more than 75% of accidents. Not to mention, think of all those empty kitchens and hungry husbands/life partners. Im sure a few are a good stick; I've never met one! Discuss.

And every one of them hands me the sammich while they take the salad when picking crew meals. It's genetics.