SWA and CAL B737s...why the six pack on the NGs?

[BillJBrake]

Seems like its taking a step backwards, no? Why not take advantage of te benefits of the tape style data in the PFD?

Is this just some attempt to reduce training costs or differences training from the Classics or old EFIS birds?

 

[Tripower455]

They haven't had that display for about 2 years now.

But it was originally done so that the FAA would allow us to fly the 200, 300, 500 and 700 without making separate lines of 700 only flying.

 

[BillJBrake]

So the SWA NGs are all tape style MFDs now? Thanks. Based on pics it seems like ex-CAL planes are still using the 6pack style.

 

[Saluki Dawg]

I think CAL's are all PFD/ND as well now.

 

[Xtremepilot]

CAL's are all still 6-pack. Heard that Boeing wants lots of $$$ to flip the switch in the E&E compartment for us to go PFD/ND.

 

[CaptWidgeon]

But it was originally done so that the FAA would allow us to fly the 200, 300, 500 and 700 without making separate lines of 700 only flying.

i thought this also, but what has changed so now we can fly round and tapes? did the faa actually use some common sense or did boeing tell swa to get with the times and they were putting tapes in the -7's forward?

i've yet to find anyone who can answer this, i think it's the latter more than the former. but i'm pulling that outta the air.

 

[redflyer65]

For Southwest, the 'getting with the times' was driven by going full up automation for RNP/GPS approaches. I don't think the round dial presentation can be altered to show all the data you need for those approaches. Just my guess.

We were even going to 'glass' the 300s, we came close, but in the end with the age of the aircraft it didn't make sense. It's been scrubbed.

I don't think the Feds are thrilled that we are flip flopping back an forth between round dial 300s and the non-round dial 700s, but maybe they are letting it slide with the retirements of the 300s. Again, just my guess.

 

[145BOSS]

CAL does RNAV/RNP approaches with their NGs and they have the 6-pack displays.

 

[Whine Lover]

ATA had 26 ( ? ) 737-800's all PFD/ND.

The geniuses decided we needed 3 737-300's from the desert that United had abandoned.

We flew both the Round dials and the PFD/ND.

No problem with the Feds or anyone else.

Oh, except ATA required everyone to go to training for those 3 aircraft for ADF/NDB training...Because the 800's didn't even have the damn things installed.

I guess deactivating/removing 3 ADF's in the 3 airplanes that had them would have been too expensive. (?)

I still haven't figured out why they went bankrupt...

 

[justin15e]

For Southwest, the 'getting with the times' was driven by going full up automation for RNP/GPS approaches. I don't think the round dial presentation can be altered to show all the data you need for those approaches. Just my guess.

We were even going to 'glass' the 300s, we came close, but in the end with the age of the aircraft it didn't make sense. It's been scrubbed.

I don't think the Feds are thrilled that we are flip flopping back an forth between round dial 300s and the non-round dial 700s, but maybe they are letting it slide with the retirements of the 300s. Again, just my guess.

That's not accurate.

We did the RNAV RNP stuff while still flying 300/500/700/800/900/900ER at CAL. (300s went away back around 2009, still have 20-30ish 500s)

CAL still currently uses the round dial presentation and are able to do all the GPS and RNAV RNP approaches. CAL is merely not willing to spend the money to change the software to the "speed tape" type presentation.

CAL doesn't have any HUDs in its 737s like SWA does.

 

[Whine Lover]

ATA had HUD's in all the 737-800's.

Nice equipment at about 3/4 mil a pop.

Nobody knew how to use them....But, they were great for seeing if you could top a cloud bank, and worked even better as a mirror to check your tie and hair before leaving the cockpit.

Remember: " It is always better to look good, than to fly that way."

ATA - AssKlown Training Academy

I am proud to say: "I AM A GRADUATE".

I even list it on my Resume'....

Seriously, we always had the best equipment /engines available...But it was like Cavemen operating Spaceships.

 

[redflyer65]

CAL does RNAV/RNP approaches with their NGs and they have the 6-pack displays.

I didn't know that, as a matter of fact I didn't even know that anyone else had that presenation.

Our switch over was directly related to the timing of RNP/RNAV/GPS approaches for what it's worth.

 

[Tripower455]

i thought this also, but what has changed so now we can fly round and tapes? did the faa actually use some common sense or did boeing tell swa to get with the times and they were putting tapes in the -7's forward?

No clue. We were told it was due to the 3 different cockpits and keeping the -700 similar to the rest per the POI.

 

[rjacobs]

it was like Cavemen operating Spaceships.

best thing posted on here in a while.

 

[aa73]

We at AA regularly switch between "Flat Panel" 757/767s (the newly installed PFD/ND displays with tapes) and the classic 2-EFIS tube round dial 75/76s. Not too big of a deal, but that's just me...

 

[Tripower455]

We at AA regularly switch between "Flat Panel" 757/767s (the newly installed PFD/ND displays with tapes) and the classic 2-EFIS tube round dial 75/76s. Not too big of a deal, but that's just me...

We do it at SW too, only our "classics" don't have any EFIS tubes at all.

 

[BillJBrake]

Good info guys, thanks.

Until I looked it up before posting this, I'd thought SWA was the only 6pack-Glass operator, CAL surprised me. I wonder if they'll go to PFD/ND when they get rid of their -500s.


aa73 - I'm not quite sure what you're referring too. In all the pictures I've seen of the B757 and B767s cockpits of AA planes, they have an EFIS style display on top with ND below. I also haven't seen any round-dial displays on any of the American birds. For reference, this is what I'm referring to at SWA/CAL



EDIT:

aa73, is this the difference you're referring to?

old school

vs

new school?

 

[aa73]

Hi Bill, here are the new displays:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...1899EDFA3CBDD128DE8B4182B2FAB2DFB5435&first=0

Closeup:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/flyforfun/4931982675/

In addition to the above Flat Panels and the "Old School" displays, we also have a hybrid-type Old School 2 tube EFIS but with Pegasus FMC, which gives us a Speed Tape on the left side of the PFD in addition to already having the round dial airspeed indicator.

 

[BillJBrake]

Hi Bill, here are the new displays:

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...1899EDFA3CBDD128DE8B4182B2FAB2DFB5435&first=0

Closeup:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/flyforfun/4931982675/

In addition to the above Flat Panels and the "Old School" displays, we also have a hybrid-type Old School 2 tube EFIS but with Pegasus FMC, which gives us a Speed Tape on the left side of the PFD in addition to already having the round dial airspeed indicator.

Thanks, those look pretty slick. Are they putting them on the entire 75/76 fleet?

 

[aa73]

All of the 767-300s are supposed to get them, and only about half of the 757s will get them. However the fleet plan continues to change, so who knows. I just read that AA plans to retire half of the 767-300s in a few years.

Currently there are 70 aircraft that have the retrofit. AA has 59 767-300s and 124 757s.

As far as quality, it is definitely the lowest priced retrofit out there. Screens do not talk to the FMC, so we still have to manually input the takeoff and landing speeds. The PFD display is really small. It's a step up from the classic 2-tube EFIS but they could have spent a lot more $$$ on a better product.