Jetblue pay raise

[banger]

2.21% retro to 01Jan. Across the board

 

[XR650R]

Congratulations! Every little bit helps.

 

[J32driver]

Congratulations! Every little bit helps.

There are no congratulations here. This process was agreed to by both the PVC and the company. It was black and white... they had the answer and the numbers back in November. No magic tricks or atta boys required.

The facts are... the company sat on it and tried to figure out how big the backlash was going to be if they reneged on a "process" that they agreed to. In the end they gave us the pay raise and make the pilots feel like they "won" a victory.

Congratulations to the company for winning another round of "3 card monte".

 

[pilotyip]

Congratulations! Every little bit helps.

nice touch, I never thought of any pay raise as something to be upset about. This is particularly true when you are pay well to do something you like to do. Lots of people never get to do that.

 

[Abernathy]

This is particularly true when you are pay well to do something you like to do. Lots of people never get to do that.

Thanks Deepak.

 

[FLYLOW22]

CPIU rises an average of 3.5% year over year.

2.2
-3.5
--------

-1.3%

 

[Smarta$$]

CPIU rises an average of 3.5% year over year.

2.2
-3.5
--------

-1.3%

Agree. But our raise was based on the industry average of similar carriers. Industry problem. American problem in general, unless you are in the top 3-4%. If you work for a paycheck, your wages are not keeping up with inflation, and haven't been for years. If your pay comes mostly from capital gains or an executive pay package, your income growth is way above inflation. Statistical fact.

 

[milehigh6080]

CPIU rises an average of 3.5% year over year.

2.2
-3.5
--------

-1.3%

True.

Agree. But our raise was based on the industry average of similar carriers. Industry problem. American problem in general, unless you are in the top 3-4%. If you work for a paycheck, your wages are not keeping up with inflation, and haven't been for years. If your pay comes mostly from capital gains or an executive pay package, your income growth is way above inflation. Statistical fact.

Also true. And sad. Look at pay rates from the early 80s. As an industry, we have really let inflation kick our collective ass.

 

[sligo1]

Pay raise is great until they pull the rabbit out of the hat. The rabbit being premium pay over 78 hrs. They have stated they want to take a look at his subject. Oh boy heres your 2.21 percent-but we have to? You be the judge.

 

[jynxyjericho]

Pay raise = paying the agreed rate?

K.

 

[texman]

So what are the new numbers on pay rates?

 

[aircombat]

CPIU rises an average of 3.5% year over year.

2.2
-3.5
--------

-1.3%

It's better than the union alternative. That would look like this

2.2
-3.5
-2.0 (union dues)
-------
-3.3%

Like previously pointed out you are making the average that your union brethren are without paying the 2% to the MECs waistline.

 

[milehigh6080]

It's better than the union alternative. That would look like this

2.2
-3.5
-2.0 (union dues)
-------
-3.3%

Like previously pointed out you are making the average that your union brethren are without paying the 2% to the MECs waistline.

We are the most productive pilots in the industry according to the MIT airline data project (http://tinyurl.com/7xkpnwn) but we're paid, as a matter of company policy, the previous year's industry average. I'm happy that they finally got around to honoring the agreement, albeit two months late after a lot of tooth pulling, but I'm not happy with this policy at all. In addition to the inherant insult in the fact that they expect and receive industry leading performance from us while compensating us at the previous year's average you can add the fact that the company has not once followed this process that they created in accordance with the actual agreement. They can do this because they hold all the cards and we have no legal mechanism to compel them to play ball with us. We can't even compel them to show up to the game if they choose not to. We deserve better.

I'm sorry you don't feel well served by your union, but have you tried having a non union relationship with your company? Can you speak from real life experience what it's like to work at a union vs. non union carrier of a signifigant size? Most of the pro union pilots at JetBlue have seen both sides, they were probably excited to try the "direct relationship" and wanted to believe it could work, but they have seen that the grass isn't greener. Its not even real grass, it's astroturf.

I'll agree that a union is no panacea. There are legitimate gripes with unions too, but what they have that the "direct relationship" lacks is a legally defined and protected process to negotiate with the company. Thats the only promise, anyone who believes there is some other promise- better pay, job protection, etc is a fool and needs to stop believing in Santa Claus. Yes, its possible to get all those things through negotiating. We have some sharp, reasonable guys here, we work for a very profitable carrier and we trail our direct peers in most areas addressed by a CBA. I like our chances, but the only promise is the legal process itself, and I'm ok with that. In fact, I'm anxious to have it.

Certifying a union doesn't automatically equal a toxic APA vs AMR type situation- the company sets the tone on that.

 

[J32driver]

It's better than the union alternative. That would look like this

2.2
-3.5
-2.0 (union dues)
-------
-3.3%

Like previously pointed out you are making the average that your union brethren are without paying the 2% to the MECs waistline.

That only applies to the hourly pay rate, not to the rest of the contract. So lets talk about health care costs, STD/LTD, loss of license, retirement benefits, rigs that produce 3 day trips worth 10 hours...

Shall I go on?

 

[Dizel8]

AC,

There is a lot more to this than you might know, so maybe listen before you speak.

You could aliken this to management honoring the signed contract, seem like that should be a simple matter and I don't think any particular outflow of gratitude is required. This is what they agreed to, this is what it should be!

As for the rest of the story, well, compensation isn't just pay, there are lots of other things to consider. Let's just put it this way, the current pay is a great bargain for the airline.

 

[jynxyjericho]

It's better than the union alternative. That would look like this

2.2
-3.5
-2.0 (union dues)
-------
-3.3%

Like previously pointed out you are making the average that your union brethren are without paying the 2% to the MECs waistline.

How long until you realize benefits and soft pay language matter? A decade from now? Two?

 

[B6Busdriver]

It's better than the union alternative. That would look like this

2.2
-3.5
-2.0 (union dues)
-------
-3.3%

Like previously pointed out you are making the average that your union brethren are without paying the 2% to the MECs waistline.

Dumbest post in the history of flightinfo. Penny wise and pound foolish.

 

[aircombat]

Dumbest post in the history of flightinfo. Penny wise and pound foolish.

For me ALPA's actions have always spoken louder then their name calling and intimidation tactics.

 

[CapnVegetto]

It's better than the union alternative. That would look like this

2.2
-3.5
-2.0 (union dues)
-------
-3.3%

Like previously pointed out you are making the average that your union brethren are without paying the 2% to the MECs waistline.

Old fart divorced captain, retired military with pension, super senior and gets whatever he wants and doesn't give a crap about the other 2,300 of us that want to make this a better place to work.

I'd bet my life on it.

 

[aircombat]

Old fart divorced captain, retired military with pension, super senior and gets whatever he wants and doesn't give a crap about the other 2,300 of us that want to make this a better place to work.

I'd bet my life on it.

I wouldn't do that if I were you. I don't even work for JB and you must not work for a unionized company if you think senior people don't support a union. Maybe at JB there are a larger amount of senior guys that don't support ALPA because they have all been thrown under the bus by them in the past. But normally it is the senior people that support ALPA because they control the union and think that they benefit at the junior members expense, even thou it usually is just shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[B6Busdriver]

For me ALPA's actions have always spoken louder then their name calling and intimidation tactics.

Let me guess, you are part of the RJDC...right?

 

[Lake Alice]

For me ALPA's actions have always spoken louder then their name calling and intimidation tactics.

Let me guess. You had a job at a regional carrier and your contract did not provide you with mainline pay and benefits therefore ALPA failed you. You expected your regional carrier to be a carrier job, right? Meanwhile you were provided with benefits, retirement, safety, legal, and a job working for a small lift provider that was designed to be a stepping stone to a major carrier.

 

[Blue Dude]

But normally it is the senior people that support ALPA because they control the union and think that they benefit at the junior members expense, even thou it usually is just shooting themselves in the foot.

Actually the plan was to have a seniority silo representative model instead of the traditional base/seat model. This nicely avoids the trap you describe. That idea got carried over to the current in-house non-union committee and I see no reason it would change under ALPA.

 

[aircombat]

Let me guess. You had a job at a regional carrier and your contract did not provide you with mainline pay and benefits therefore ALPA failed you. You expected your regional carrier to be a carrier job, right? Meanwhile you were provided with benefits, retirement, safety, legal, and a job working for a small lift provider that was designed to be a stepping stone to a major carrier.

You are much closer than CaptnV or B6B if it makes you feel better about yourself. I didn't have any expectations and don't know who designed regionals to be stepping stones because I thought they were designed to be wage control for Major airlines. You guys are the ones with the unrealistic expectations of ALPA. I don't know how much I can take hearing you guys say "We need ALPA so we don't become like X airline" when X airline is, or was, an ALPA carrier.

 

[Lake Alice]

If you could be specific what did ALPA do to you?

 

[aircombat]

If you could be specific what did ALPA do to you?

It’s more of what they don’t do then what they do. There are very few people that think this profession is heading in the right direction. The proof is in the lack of faith shown by how few people are getting trained to become pilots. ALPA is in a position to turn things around however they are too political to care about the future. It’s easier for them to keep the status quo, keeping their union pay then to rock the boat and possibly lose everything. If you ask them why they can’t get anything done they will always cite the RLA or say it’s not a mandatory negotiating item. I just want to be like the club owner in kill bill when Budd tells him why he isn’t doing his job http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaf11UNSvcQ&feature=related .

ALPA has done almost nothing to prevent scope relaxation, supported increasing the retirement age at worst possible time (while thousands were on furlough), and supports pitting pilots against each other. For me personally, they don’t answer the phone, don’t return phone calls, don’t show their presence in the crew lounge, and don’t educate the pilot group in any way. Instead they, push their views with no supporting data, too often sound like an echo from management, allow clear violations of the CBA to occur with days of advanced notice, and overall provide a false sense of security.

 

[Blue Dude]

And yet... the DR has even less to offer.

 

[aircombat]

And yet... the DR has even less to offer.

maybe, but are you certain that you will get more than 2% because you will need that just to break even. I'm by no means an expert on the JB agreement however if you are getting the industry standard that's all that ALPA will ever strive for.
I'm not a union hater. I would support them fully if they worked and most importantly upheld the "collective interests of all pilots in commercial aviation", as their mission statement says.

 

[Blue Dude]

maybe, but are you certain that you will get more than 2% because you will need that just to break even. I'm by no means an expert on the JB agreement however if you are getting the industry standard that's all that ALPA will ever strive for.

I'm not going into details, but suffice it to say that across the board industry average would be a vast improvement. And merely average in areas we lack need a CBA to implement. So yeah, 2% is a bargain.

 

[banger]

if you are getting the industry standard that's all that ALPA will ever strive for.
.

Depends on the defintion of standard. We don't automitically get and need to fight for the combined average of airlines who someone else says is our peer from 2 years ago. Right out of the blocks that "average" is outdated. Then that standard applies only to pay rate. Retirement, healthcare and work rules are father behind. Everything is in vague writing up for interpretation and the company is the judge and final say.