Southwest and their lack of pay raises and stock in their merger

[On Your Six]

There, I started a thread for Redflyer. You keep bashing ALPA, but you guys couldn't do any better during your merger with Airtran. You got zero pay raises, zero stock, and SWAPA had to bring in the big guns to talk down the Airtran MEC. I think you may want to look into ALPA, because SWAPA sure didn't seem to add much to your merger, accept Airtran guys in front of you.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[ASADFW7]

This is a good discussion OYS. In the context of comparison I think there may be some good discussion here. Thank you for starting this thread lets see where this goes. I can say as a SWA pilot we are often teased with carrots and because of our referenced compensation now in 2012 it was harder to seek improvements above current levels.

 

[On Your Six]

This is a good discussion OYS. In the context of comparison I think there may be some good discussion here. Thank you for starting this thread lets see where this goes. I can say as a SWA pilot we are often teased with carrots and because of our referenced compensation now in 2012 it was harder to seek improvements above current levels.

Thanks. Of course I want SWA to keep the bar high, but I think there were some serious misteps when SWA wages weren't increased at all in the joint contract, and there was zero stock given. I would love to get a response from Redflyer, and see if he thinks SWAPA should have tried for that, or if he thinks ALPA could have done better, like they did in the DL and NWA merger.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[canyonblue]

I think you may want to look into ALPA, because SWAPA sure didn't seem to add much to your merger, accept Airtran guys in front of you.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

So your position is the AirTran guys made out great. Ok then, got it.

 

[Captain Fulough]

Hey Princess, you might wan't to reference this thread: Delta and UAL might be de-certifying ALPA

I'm glad ALPA got you huge raises and lots of stock along with big seniority bumps during your merger with NWA. Hopefully in our next contract we can raise our pay up to yours.

Back to hanging out in ELP and other cities served by your outsourcing.

 

[On Your Six]

So your position is the AirTran guys made out great. Ok then, got it.

Ask your own junior guys how they feel. I talked to a few, they may interview elsewhere. And your SWAPA didn't help your cause. You had to have "daddy" come in and give a talk.... The truth hurts, quit bragging.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[On Your Six]

Hey Princess, you might wan't to reference this thread: Delta and UAL might be de-certifying ALPA

I'm glad ALPA got you huge raises and lots of stock along with big seniority bumps during your merger with NWA. Hopefully in our next contract we can raise our pay up to yours.

Back to hanging out in ELP and other cities served by your outsourcing.

Had you actually read that thread, you would have seen that the majority still approves of ALPA, including me. A lot will happen after this next contract, and thanks to DL making 4 times the profit of Southwest now (United makes 6 times the profit), there is a great chance real progress will happen.

Btw, mainline still flies to ELP, on MD88s. I, luckily, do not because I don't fly that plane. That makes me happy. Enjoy it there, I won't.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[redflyer65]

Sorry I hurt your feelings OYS. But I'll bite..


I think we will do just fine. Better than ALPA? Absolutely. I'm so glad we aren't apart of that political, self-serving machine. Enjoy it.

Oh, and one more thing....our dues are HALF of yours. So we keep more of the money we work hard for.

 

[On Your Six]

Sorry I hurt your feelings OYS. But I'll bite..


I think we will do just fine. Better than ALPA? Absolutely. I'm so glad we aren't apart of that political, self-serving machine. Enjoy it.

Oh, and one more thing....our dues are HALF of yours. So we keep more of the money we work hard for.

You do work hard for it, that is a fact. There is no way I would do your schedules, not even for that higher pay. I like 1 or 2 leg days, max. I also look forward to flying overseas someday, and the variety that comes along with a healthy legacy carrier.

As far as your union goes, the dues may be half, and that is pretty much what you got in your negotiations. Boy, they had NO IDEA what to do when Airtran balked. They stood there, shaking, and had to look for someone elses help. "Help me, daddy." Everyone in the industry saw arbitration coming, and somehow, some WAY, it just didn't..... Hmmmm. Was that because of your union's expertise? No. It was because someone had a locker room talk with someone else. Now, any other group that SWA eventually wants to merge with will KNOW what the deal is. There will be zero cooperation most likely. The Airtran guys initially thought they could get a better deal in arbitration, and they may have been correct, had it not been for some...ahem.....revelations......???? Yeah, your dues are less, and they may want to increase them so they can pay for some negotiating lessons for your group.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[redflyer65]

As far as your union goes, the dues may be half, and that is pretty much what you got in your negotiations. Boy, they had NO IDEA what to do when Airtran balked. They stood there, shaking, and had to look for someone elses help. "Help me, daddy." Everyone in the industry saw arbitration coming, and somehow, some WAY, it just didn't..... Hmmmm. Was that because of your union's expertise? No. It was because someone had a locker room talk with someone else. Now, any other group that SWA eventually wants to merge with will KNOW what the deal is. There will be zero cooperation most likely. The Airtran guys initially thought they could get a better deal in arbitration, and they may have been correct, had it not been for some...ahem.....revelations......???? Yeah, your dues are less, and they may want to increase them so they can pay for some negotiating lessons for your group.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

WHAT?

I'd say SWAPA came out pretty good. Airtran guys are getting a raise that puts them above yours. Opinions on both side will vary, and it's over. Just like DL/NW is over, even after pissing off some NW guys. I'm pretty sure both sides are ready to move forward together. I know I am.

See you in Atlanta in about two weeks.

RF

 

[outerlimits]

There, I started a thread for Redflyer. You keep bashing ALPA, but you guys couldn't do any better during your merger with Airtran. You got zero pay raises, zero stock, and SWAPA had to bring in the big guns to talk down the Airtran MEC. I think you may want to look into ALPA, because SWAPA sure didn't seem to add much to your merger, accept Airtran guys in front of you.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

Did some Southwest pilot do so
Something to you ? You have a lot of anger towards them

 

[On Your Six]

WHAT?

I'd say SWAPA came out pretty good. Airtran guys are getting a raise that puts them above yours. Opinions on both side will vary, and it's over. Just like DL/NW is over, even after pissing off some NW guys. I'm pretty sure both sides are ready to move forward together. I know I am.

See you in Atlanta in about two weeks.

RF

The AT guys on the 717 kept AT pay, and the 737 Captains got bumped to FO, with no chance of going back to the seats in their own planes until 2015. And GK pulling the pay raise deal from the first offer away from the table even after the "locker room talk" was ridiculous. That won't be forgotten. Great way to foster unity.

I would say opinions due vary, but I would think the AT guys were thinking about the "prize", which was better pay and benefits, not thinking "I want to be a part of the SWA bunch." They weren't treated that well in the process. The Process Agreement stated they could go for arbitration, and then they couldn't.

I do hope to see you in ATL in two weeks, it will be fun to see if you can hold your speeds, not ask for short approaches, and to do normal speed taxis. You might be able to out taxi one of our 777s, but that won't make a difference, the Ground guy will give you your sequence.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[27 driver]

WHAT?

I'd say SWAPA came out pretty good. Airtran guys are getting a raise that puts them above yours. Opinions on both side will vary, and it's over. Just like DL/NW is over, even after pissing off some NW guys. I'm pretty sure both sides are ready to move forward together. I know I am.

See you in Atlanta in about two weeks.

RF

Um, most Airtran pilots aren't getting a raise for a long time. I will be taking a pay cut until 2015.

 

[PCL_128]

OYS, the premise of your post is ridiculous. DALPA secured significant pay raises because Delta and NWA were in the middle of the pack with their bankruptcy CBAs. The pay raises just got your pay up above bankruptcy levels, still well below SWA. And you think SWAPA should have secured similar gains even though their rates are at the top of the industry? You live in a fantasy world. I certainly agree with you that ALPA representation is superior to independent representation. But the way you frame your argument makes no sense. Look for better arguments.

 

[jhill]

Originally Posted by On Your Six
I think you may want to look into ALPA, because SWAPA sure didn't seem to add much to your merger, accept Airtran guys in front of you.


Godspeed!

The OYSter

What the heII does this mean? We should accept (as in embrace)the Airtran guys or except as in an exclution?

Where the he!! did you go to school?

I found this on a fancy contraption call the inner-net, er sumpin like that.

Definition of ACCEPT

transitive verb
1
a: to receive willingly <accept a gift> b: to be able or designed to take or hold (something applied or added) <a surface that will not accept ink>

2
: to give admittance or approval to <accept her as one of the group>

3
a: to endure without protest or reaction <accept poor living conditions> b: to regard as proper, normal, or inevitable <the idea is widely accepted> c: to recognize as true : believe <refused to accept the explanation>

Definition of EXCEPT

: with the exclusion or exception of <daily except Sundays>


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Variants of EXCEPT

ex·cept also ex·cept·ing \-ˈsep-tiŋ\

.example-sentences ol.collapsed-list li.hidden{ display: none;}li.more-sent-link{ background: none;}#content .definition div.d li.more-sent-link a.more-link,#content .definition div.d li.more-sent-link a.hide-link{ color: #717274; font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; font-variant: normal; text-decoration: none;}#content .definition div.d li.more-sent-link a.more-link:hover .text,#content .definition div.d li.more-sent-link a.hide-link:hover .text{ text-decoration: underline;}.example-sentences ol.expanded-list a.more-link,.example-sentences ol.collapsed-list a.hide-link{ display: none;}#content .definition div.d li.more-sent-link span.icon{ padding-right: 2px;}Examples of EXCEPT

1. The stores will be open daily except Sundays.
2. <the store is open daily except Sundays>

 

[FIREMAN]

Hell must be freezing over. PCL is defending SWAPA!!!

 

[redflyer65]

I think he's gonna like it when he comes over. It's not perfect but it works pretty well.

RF

 

[waveflyer]

Rookie nerd. I can guarantee you I've been in and out of ATL way more than you- I've done plenty of short approaches there, and you just sound like a geek thinking ATL is some kind of strange airport that will be difficult to operate in. Two things- ATC is all about moving metal- help them do that, and they'll help you. And 2- few corporations in the world understand people and relationships better than Swa-
We'll be fine. No matter how much you, the competition, wish we won't.

I do hope to see you in ATL in two weeks, it will be fun to see if you can hold your speeds, not ask for short approaches, and to do normal speed taxis. You might be able to out taxi one of our 777s, but that won't make a difference, the Ground guy will give you your sequence.
Godspeed! The OYSter

 

[Tripower455]

Why the hell do you guys even feed this troll anymore?

 

[Cometman]

Why the hell do you guys even feed this troll anymore?

True statement. If everybody would stop responding to him or General Lee they would go away. Why not really try and not respond. It will be hard but it can be done.