NJASAP furloughed pilots

[fischman]

I encourage you all to call in to the NJASAP office and file a 401k individual grievance.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Fisch, serious question. Why has the 401k individual grievance filing rate (from numerous accounts) been so low?

Is it:

A) Lack of awareness among the pilot group as to the ability/union request to file?

B) General apathy as in "We ain't gonna change it so just let it roll and see what happens with the CAG"?

or, horrors,

C) Some pilots have lost/never did have confidence in this NJASAP leadership and just do their job and keep their mouths shut for not wanting to endure the barrage of hateful rhetoric by the same 100 drum-beaters?

Personally, I think it is a TINY bit of A, a LOT of B, but a fair amount of C as well.








*I think you're right about people who can't argue a case resorting to name calling (as you posted elsewhere). Wait for it....

 

[CA1900]

I can only speak for myself, but I assumed an individual grievance wasn't necessary since we had a class-action grievance in process.

I just filed my individual one; it was very quick and easy with the example posted on our board.

As for losing confidence in leadership, I suppose that's possible, but I'm much more concerned with our management pissing away money on propaganda dinners while complaining that we need to improve investor return.

 

[G4dude]

I can only speak for myself, but I assumed an individual grievance wasn't necessary since we had a class-action grievance in process.

I just filed my individual one; it was very quick and easy with the example posted on our board.

As for losing confidence in leadership, I suppose that's possible, but I'm much more concerned with our management pissing away money on propaganda dinners while complaining that we need to improve investor return.

Please don't be offended, but do y'all ever just relax and enjoy the job?

 

[CA1900]

Yep, sure do. I relax a lot more when management isn't focusing all its efforts into taking away my livelihood and my retirement.

You can sit back and let a labor lawyer destroy what the employees and Santulli built, or you can fight to keep it. By your statements here, it's clear you lean toward the former.

 

[rajflyboy]

after last week NJA pilots have more support for ML than they ever have

 

[gutshotdraw]

Source?

 

[rajflyboy]

Source?

any crew lounge in the United States of America

all you guys talk about now is this

 

[G4dude]

any crew lounge in the United States of America

all you guys talk about now is this

I avoid those crew lounges like the plague.

 

[BentOver]

I filed along with the few who still communicate on NJASAP (seeing how we are mostly out of the grown up loop:angryfire)

All I ask in return is the same remedy that the line guys get. (extended days or whatever an arbitrator decides) AND when push comes to shove, the furloughed pilot section of the contract is to remain in tact. I never want to hear that the company is offering XXXX for a limit on furlough recall rights. Because I KNOW there are a few at NJA who would throw our recall rights in the trash for a few extra dollars. Not a lot but a few.

 

[jtf]

I am pretty good at relaxing most of the time, but the brief amount of time it takes to fill out the grievance and have at least a little hope of getting something for the the company's direct contract violation that is potentially costing me losses in my retirement funds. Since my Fidelity account was primarily invested in stock index funds, if the market goes up while in the blackout period, I will most likely end up losing money since those funds were all mapped into a single bond index fund that is much more stable and will have most likely slightly gone down in the event that the overall market is higher. That was definitely not my choice. If the market ends up overall down during the blackout period, I guess I will have made some money that I wouldn't have due to my own investment choices. In that case I guess I won't get anything in the grievance, but if I don't file, I won't be getting anything if my choices were correct in the first place. I guess I must be an idiot for trying to protect MY money.

 

[fischman]

Fisch, serious question. Why has the 401k individual grievance filing rate (from numerous accounts) been so low?

Is it:

A) Lack of awareness among the pilot group as to the ability/union request to file?

B) General apathy as in "We ain't gonna change it so just let it roll and see what happens with the CAG"?

or, horrors,

C) Some pilots have lost/never did have confidence in this NJASAP leadership and just do their job and keep their mouths shut for not wanting to endure the barrage of hateful rhetoric by the same 100 drum-beaters?

Personally, I think it is a TINY bit of A, a LOT of B, but a fair amount of C as well.








*I think you're right about people who can't argue a case resorting to name calling (as you posted elsewhere). Wait for it....

Personally I don't care why, however I think many are trying to calculate a specific dollar amount that they were harmed. That is not required. GSD, I am willing to help you file as well if you need help. Just send me a PM and I'd be happy to walk you through it.

I'm simply encouraging ALL (including the 495) to file. Protect your financial interest!

 

[fischman]

I filed along with the few who still communicate on NJASAP (seeing how we are mostly out of the grown up loop:angryfire)

That is why I posted here.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Personally I don't care why, however I think many are trying to calculate a specific dollar amount that they were harmed. That is not required. GSD, I am willing to help you file as well if you need help. Just send me a PM and I'd be happy to walk you through it.

I'm simply encouraging ALL (including the 495) to file. Protect your financial interest!

I appreciate the offer Fisch but I don't intend to file.

Consider me solidly in the "B" camp while dipping a toe in the "C" camp.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Wow.

Lead, Follow, or get out of the way.

 

[gutshotdraw]

Wow.

Lead, Follow, or get out of the way.

Your third option would appear to be the choice of many, including me. I'm don't like where things are leading, don't care to follow, but I also don't cajole, demand, or lobby others to agree with me. Hence, I'm getting out of the way for you to do as you wish.

 

[rajflyboy]

all i can say man is G Wiz

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

My statement remains as I stated previously, Sir. You can sit back and take it up the ol' !#$#$# but some of us don't want to experience that.

You are entitled to your opinion and I will always respect that, though I may disagree. Just please don't get in the way of those who who wish to navigate down this road of contractual compliance, and who refuse to be apathetic.

A sincere Happy Holidays.

 

[nordo_2]

Please don't be offended, but do y'all ever just relax and enjoy the job?

Oh hell ya. That’s easy to do with my sky-high seniority number. Stick my head up the FMS and enjoy the ride, muncho..

Obtuse much?

 

[gutshotdraw]

My statement remains as I stated previously, Sir. You can sit back and take it up the ol' !#$#$# but some of us don't want to experience that.

You are entitled to your opinion and I will always respect that, though I may disagree. Just please don't get in the way of those who who wish to navigate down this road of contractual compliance, and who refuse to be apathetic.

A sincere Happy Holidays.

How, exactly, am I getting in YOUR way by declining to file a grievance that will be packaged as a Class Action anyway?

And a sincere Happy Holidays to you as well.

 

[fischman]

I appreciate the offer Fisch but I don't intend to file.

Consider me solidly in the "B" camp while dipping a toe in the "C" camp.

That is your choice, but by not filing you are letting you future options to protect your money dwindle. That could be a number in the TENS OF THOUSANDS depending on your particular situation.

I strongly recommend that you do file. If you change your mind and want to protect yourself I'd be happy to help.

Merry Christmas brother.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

How, exactly, am I getting in YOUR way by declining to file a grievance that will be packaged as a Class Action anyway?

And a sincere Happy Holidays to you as well.

You aren't, GSD.

I don't like how things are going here either. The only difference is that I believe the eboard is spot on in their assessments and actions, and you don't.
Face it, though, would we even be debating this if the EMT had just abided by the contractual agreement of section 29.1?

 

[gutshotdraw]

You aren't, GSD.

I don't like how things are going here either. The only difference is that I believe the eboard is spot on in their assessments and actions, and you don't.
Face it, though, would we even be debating this if the EMT had just abided by the contractual agreement of section 29.1?

Oh believe me, I'm dying to read the company's argument to the arbitrator as to how they believe their actions were compliant. Should be interesting reading and I hope it will be possible to see a transcript when the ruling is issued. I just don't see the reason for flooding the system with individual 401k grievances when this will clearly be a class action, except to skew statistics.

As to the EBoard, over the past 18 months they have taken a few, very specific actions that directly impacted my salary and employment in negative ways. Consequently, I tend to view most of their communications and "requests" with a jaundiced eye. The same jaundiced eye with which I view communications from Hansell et al. Rehashing the details will only piss people off and depress me and that's not good for anybody so close to Christmas.

Merry Christmas
Happy Hanukkah
Glad Tidings and all that.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

Oh believe me, I'm dying to read the company's argument to the arbitrator as to how they believe their actions were compliant. Should be interesting reading and I hope it will be possible to see a transcript when the ruling is issued. I just don't see the reason for flooding the system with individual 401k grievances when this will clearly be a class action, except to skew statistics.

As to the EBoard, over the past 18 months they have taken a few, very specific actions that directly impacted my salary and employment in negative ways. Consequently, I tend to view most of their communications and "requests" with a jaundiced eye. The same jaundiced eye with which I view communications from Hansell et al. Rehashing the details will only piss people off and depress me and that's not good for anybody so close to Christmas.

Merry Christmas
Happy Hanukkah
Glad Tidings and all that.

GSD, I will be glad to offer my opinion on the reasons for the individual grievances being filed. However, all the Anti-union goons trolling here will probably water down what has become a somewhat civilized conversation.
That being said, I have no qualms about waiting until after the holiday season to continue this discussion.

 

[rajflyboy]

Oh believe me, I'm dying to read the company's argument to the arbitrator as to how they believe their actions were compliant. Should be interesting reading and I hope it will be possible to see a transcript when the ruling is issued. I just don't see the reason for flooding the system with individual 401k grievances when this will clearly be a class action, except to skew statistics.

As to the EBoard, over the past 18 months they have taken a few, very specific actions that directly impacted my salary and employment in negative ways. Consequently, I tend to view most of their communications and "requests" with a jaundiced eye. The same jaundiced eye with which I view communications from Hansell et al. Rehashing the details will only piss people off and depress me and that's not good for anybody so close to Christmas.

Merry Christmas
Happy Hanukkah
Glad Tidings and all that.

alright kid its time to show the FACTS on this? If you got any

 

[gutshotdraw]

GSD, I will be glad to offer my opinion on the reasons for the individual grievances being filed. However, all the Anti-union goons trolling here will probably water down what has become a somewhat civilized conversation.
That being said, I have no qualms about waiting until after the holiday season to continue this discussion.

In my experience, aside from B19, it isn't anti-union goons that lower the level of discourse. You know as well as I do that challenging the union dogma here (and ESPECIALLY on the company board) invites vitriol, ridicule, and name-calling. Anything but a discussion on the merits. That's why I call that board the Echo Chamber. It's also why there are fewer than 100 active posters and the rest, like me, only lurk, and read, and learn.

And with THAT, a Deputy Santa must load his four-wheeled sleigh and depart to warm the hearth of a distant home.

 

[jetlag7]

As to the EBoard, over the past 18 months they have taken a few, very specific actions that directly impacted my salary and employment in negative ways.

Details?

 

[G4dude]

GSD, I will be glad to offer my opinion on the reasons for the individual grievances being filed. However, all the Anti-union goons trolling here will probably water down what has become a somewhat civilized conversation.
That being said, I have no qualms about waiting until after the holiday season to continue this discussion.

ANTI union goons? What a laugh.

 

[HiSpeedFlyer]

I'm sorry, was I talking to you?:bomb:

 

[realityman]

As to the EBoard, over the past 18 months they have taken a few, very specific actions that directly impacted my salary and employment in negative ways.

C'mon GSD!! Don't drop this on us and leave us begging for more! (Oh okay. If it'll help: p-p-p-p-pleeeease tell us about this! How was that?)

If our union is taking direct action against any member(s), we should know about it. I am all in behind our union.....unless they start actively working AGAINST the very membership they're supposed to represent.

Now, we know most of you GLC folks were most definitely NOT interested in being part of our union, but you're here anyway. So I suppose from your perspective you would consider that negatively impacting your employment here (although it was in writing that NOT A SINGLE PERSON would have a reduction in pay as a result of the merger). So, I'll give you that one.

But I am truly interested to know how our eboard has negatively impacted your pay and employment here (other than the simple fact of you HAVING to be a part of the union).

If you don't wish to put it up on a public board, I'm always open to a PM. I have NEVER posted info gained from a PM onto the public section of this, or any other board.

So how has our eboard taking action against YOU that has reduced your pay?