Majors buying regionals in future

[i fly boxes]

The majors need their regional feed but what is going to happen in about 5 years? American already made a little step in this direction by giving everyone at eagle a number but can anyone else see the scenario of the legacies approaching their regional partners and giving them numbers or just saying well we are going to take you and your pilots over.
Pros - scope would no longer be an issue, everyone would have at least 1500 hours, major job protection for those currently on the legacy list, and it would allow mainline to put the correct airplanes on the correct routes and ditch as many 50 seat a/c as they want.

Cons - mainline inability to screen candidates, possible B scale wage,

 

[redflyer65]

Lately, they've been selling them.

 

[Bwipilot]

No way in hell the Majors are going to repurchase their RJ operators. It would remove their ability to dump old planes from their operation (50 seat RJs) and whipsaw the crews against each other to pay the lowest wages. Add in the fact that the Majors have two much debt and it's just a pipe dream for a regional pilot hoping for an easy way to the majors. Eagle pilots got a number as a going away present from AMR.

Caveat: if there ever becomes a huge pilot or RJ shortage, the stronger majors might gobble up there RJ feed--but monkeys will fly out your butt before that happens.

 

[Ridgeback]

Delta sold Mesaba and Compass sunsetting their flows...They negoiated Some to flow but could have taken everyone but passed

 

[Flyby1206]

No way in hell the Majors are going to repurchase their RJ operators. It would remove their ability to dump old planes from their operation (50 seat RJs) and whipsaw the crews against each other to pay the lowest wages.

This ^^^

In an extreme pilot shortage scenario, the carriers who will feel it the most are the regionals. Majors will have no problems sucking up hundreds of guys from RJs, but those RJ carriers will have problems finding newhires to replace them. The solution to that is shrinking the regional carrier flying and bring back capacity to mainline.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Exactly. If the majors can't get enough feed from shrinking regionals they'll just replace the six flights a day to small cities with two or three narrowbodies.

That'll help airport congestion, too.

 

[ualdriver]

This ^^^

In an extreme pilot shortage scenario, the carriers who will feel it the most are the regionals. Majors will have no problems sucking up hundreds of guys from RJs, but those RJ carriers will have problems finding newhires to replace them. The solution to that is shrinking the regional carrier flying and bring back capacity to mainline.

Or....perish the thought......regional airlines could simply pay their pilots a wage commensurate with the education and experience the job requires. They could stop beating their pilots about the head and shoulders for sport. They could make their regional airline a career destination by providing pay, work rules, benefits, and career advancement opportunities that will make pilots want to stay.

That's crazy talk though, I know!

 

[Flyby1206]

Or....perish the thought......regional airlines could simply pay their pilots a wage commensurate with the education and experience the job requires. They could stop beating their pilots about the head and shoulders for sport. They could make their regional airline a career destination by providing pay, work rules, benefits, and career advancement opportunities that will make pilots want to stay.

That's crazy talk though, I know!

Shut your mouth boy!

But yes I think regionals will continue to raise pay marginally, but it will be in direct relation to the mainline labor costs. If regionals get 'too expensive' then that will cause mainline mgmt to shift flying back to the legacy carrier.

Considering there are really 3 major players in the regional game (Skywest/Republic/Pinnacle) they will control the pricing on the majority of feed contracts and they know the consequences of being too expensive. Regional carrier mergers have shadowed the legacy carriers by providing growth, pricing power, and a way to spread costs over a wider range.

The truth of it is that raising pay at regionals wont change the number of newhire applications significantly. Most CFIs take a pay cut to start out at a regional in the current environment, and we do it in hopes of gaining experience to make it to the top someday.

 

[whatitdoing?]

I think the days of the regional airline are limited. You'll see a slow and and long term pullback as flying is brought back to the mainline carrier. All it's going to take is one major airline contract with strong scope protections and the rest will follow.

 

[IBNAV8R]

IMHO, majors buying regionals would result in a "C" scale. Pilots would never go for it. My guess is that before that happens, majors will increasingly focus on the juicy overseas routes and leave the domestic market to regionals, who will eventually do most, if not all, of the narrow-body North America flying.

If WN doesn't fall into one of these categories, I'll give 'em 15-20 years - tops.

Then again, we may be all sitting in the Wal-Mart break room boring the crap out of the whipper-snappers reminiscing about when airliners USED to actually have pilots on the airplanes.

 

[brokedash]

I think its only a matter of time before LCC buys YV. YV will soon be nothing but desireable 700s and 900s. OO coming in to replace some YV flying adds to this theory as LCC could buy YV and then sublet the planes to OO.

There is also a crazy rumor I've heard about putting the 900s at US mainline in order to get enough ALPA pilots to vote out the USAPA.

 

[Flybywire44]

LCC new hires who came from ALPA may not necessarily be anti-USAPA.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

The majors need their regional feed but what is going to happen in about 5 years? American already made a little step in this direction by giving everyone at eagle a number but can anyone else see the scenario of the legacies approaching their regional partners and giving them numbers or just saying well we are going to take you and your pilots over.
Pros - scope would no longer be an issue, everyone would have at least 1500 hours, major job protection for those currently on the legacy list, and it would allow mainline to put the correct airplanes on the correct routes and ditch as many 50 seat a/c as they want.

Cons - mainline inability to screen candidates, possible B scale wage,

Stick to flying boxes, all the majors have been down this road! They used the regionals to drive the mainline pay down, transferred flying to the wholly owned regionals...now RJ's can't make money with high oil prices and the regional pay is close to mainlines (because longevity for the regional pilots AND pay cuts and freezes for the mainline pilots!) and you're seeing wholly owned regionals being spun off in IPO's ala coex to extract any money left that their worth and then the flying going to the lowest bidder! Eagle is next, then who? Compass? PSA? Piedmont? Etc.
KBB

 

[Flyby1206]

Stick to flying boxes, all the majors have been down this road! They used the regionals to drive the mainline pay down, transferred flying to the wholly owned regionals...now RJ's can't make money with high oil prices and the regional pay is close to mainlines (because longevity for the regional pilots AND pay cuts and freezes for the mainline pilots!) and you're seeing wholly owned regionals being spun off in IPO's ala coex to extract any money left that their worth and then the flying going to the lowest bidder! Eagle is next, then who? Compass? PSA? Piedmont? Etc.
KBB

Compass has already been spun off to TSA, but the USAirways feeders have been suspiciously immune to the spin off threat (PSA/Piedmont).

 

[Mr Hat]

No way in hell the Majors are going to repurchase their RJ operators. It would remove their ability to dump old planes from their operation (50 seat RJs) and whipsaw the crews against each other to pay the lowest wages. Add in the fact that the Majors have two much debt and it's just a pipe dream for a regional pilot hoping for an easy way to the majors. Eagle pilots got a number as a going away present from AMR.

Caveat: if there ever becomes a huge pilot or RJ shortage, the stronger majors might gobble up there RJ feed--but monkeys will fly out your butt before that happens.

Easy way to the majors? In the history of aviation this regional stuff and getting stuck at one is a new thing. Before the 90's, when major airlines started buying small feeder operations that eventually GREW into these 50 seat airlines we have today, pilots used to from a Baron flying checks into a DC9 at a major....or whatever junior plane needed staffing at the time. So you can cool your big mainline jets with this RJ pilot pipedream of an easy way to the majors. RJ pilots are far more experienced than those who got hired into the majors prior to RJ's and Regional airlines.

 

[Tweaker]

Compass has already been spun off to TSA, but the USAirways feeders have been suspiciously immune to the spin off threat (PSA/Piedmont).

PDT and PSA have little to no value as an asset to sell, and their horsesheeot pay and contracts make them a no brainer to just keep until the time comes to ditch them entirely. They are like your airport car, that if you are non-emotional and non-materialistic you realize it would be foolish to part with it barring some serious financial investment that becomes needed (engine replacement=fleet replacement).

They make money and the Dashes will be flown until the wings fall off. All this time they will go on blowing smoke up the asses of the young up and coming professionals operating them, and churning the bottom 25% (who survive the unethical incompetent tyrants running their training department, one of whom just got arrested for impersonating a police officer) of the pilots who realize that their employer is going nowhere fast and they jump ship.

 

[tab flyer]

Easy way to the majors? In the history of aviation this regional stuff and getting stuck at one is a new thing. Before the 90's, when major airlines started buying small feeder operations that eventually GREW into these 50 seat airlines we have today, pilots used to from a Baron flying checks into a DC9 at a major....or whatever junior plane needed staffing at the time. So you can cool your big mainline jets with this RJ pilot pipedream of an easy way to the majors. RJ pilots are far more experienced than those who got hired into the majors prior to RJ's and Regional airlines.

Yes, but some of them do not have the same sticks skills as the Baron pilots. Too much automation beginning at a very early experience level. Great guys and gals but I sometimes notice an over reliance on the box, TV screens and the autopilot.

 

[Sig]

(who survive the unethical incompetent tyrants running their training department, one of whom just got arrested for impersonating a police officer).

Aw, c'mon Tweaker. You know he's on the 190 at Mainline just like you are/were. Now if you were talking about the AirTran MEC chairman- I fully would get the TD rant.

 

[Tweaker]

Once an integrity sell out, always an integrity sell out. I'd like credit for leaving out the bit of suicidal nastyness.

 

[Ky.BrownBourbn]

Once an integrity sell out, always an integrity sell out. I'd like credit for leaving out the bit of suicidal nastyness.

Who (OR WHAT) are you guys talking about?

KBB