Awful quiet

[BentOver]

Awful quiet lately at NJA.....People must be busy filling out JB applications!!

Thank you Warren Buffet for sending us such outstanding leadership.....They are an inspiration to us all....on what not to do to lead a company...

 

[pilotyip]

I know lots of guys waiting to come back, whatever NJ is it is better than a 45 year old DA-20 in the middle of the night going to MMIO.

 

[BentOver]

I know lots of guys waiting to come back, whatever NJ is it is better than a 45 year old DA-20 in the middle of the night going to MMIO.

Trust me..the wait will be long. I think everyone furloughed is starting to realize that more and more (I am now, was glass half full before)....Guarantee resumes are being written as we speak from guys still there..No doubt in my mind. The old contacts are being called and logbooks are being updated...

True, the job is much better than a 45 year old DA-20. But only for the part of the seniority list that is still able to fly for NJA. Which IMO will be shrinking sometime within a year.

 

[OPECJet]

I think you might be right. Current management isn't qualified to run a 7/11....

 

[jtf]

I have my doubts that any of those furloughed will come back. I also have my doubts that there will be a job for those in the bottom 500 to 700 or so who are still working. I am actively looking to see what my options are and hoping that I can make it at least another year so that hopefully there will be a bit more good jobs available at least overseas where the bulk of growth is. Unless a new management team comes in with a new plan, I see NJA shrinking down to between 300 to 400 airplanes and maybe, just maybe slowly growing a little from there, but probably never coming close to the peak in size. The majority of pilots are in their 40s to 50s so it's not like there will be a ton of retirements in the next decade- probably around 2 percent attrition unless a lot of pilots start leaving if there are more and more good jobs available elsewhere. After disposing probably close to 100 airframes in the last 1 and a half years and over a year before any new airframes might come on property, I don't see how management will stop shrinking- especially now that they are getting pretty good at offloading airplanes and using those sales as "profit" to justify their own jobs. I really don't see any way around another furlough unless we start bringing in new airplanes soon at a very fast pace and unless we can win the training grievance- that is worth about 250 jobs right there that they will eventually shed as long as every pilot on the seniority list is in training one less week a year. Things are definitely not smelling very rosy right now. I hope I'm wrong.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Ah the doom and gloom. Look, no one can grow at the rate NJA did and not have some fall off when they peak. It is easy to grow, it is hard to know when to stop. Just be patient. Now that NJA is closing in on their optimum size natural attrition will start to take over and it will be no different than any major airline.

 

[jtf]

What you say is true- growth and hiring where not well planned. Sell anything we can get our hands on- almost no matter how ill suited it is for the operation- until the band stops playing. I wish the there was some more foresight, but it is what it is. They have a plan to shrink it and they seem to be following that plan quite well. The plan very well may be what is best for the business, but it isn't so nice for those on the bottom and all those office workers put on the street. If you are low on the pole, you best be surveying your options.

 

[BentOver]

Ah the doom and gloom. Look, no one can grow at the rate NJA did and not have some fall off when they peak. It is easy to grow, it is hard to know when to stop. Just be patient. Now that NJA is closing in on their optimum size natural attrition will start to take over and it will be no different than any major airline.

Unfortunatley, unlike a major airline, ther is no retirement age. So natural attrition is much slower than a major.

Also when things are good, majors add planes and increase routes whenever they feel necessary. At a fractional planes and pilots numbers are completely dependant on sales. There is no blueprint for max or min block hours that determine staffing.

The rub of it all is Netjets is now lagging behind the other fractionals, with much higher costs to the owners, and on top of that the owners are flying in much older a/c. So their selling points are "you'll pay more than the other guy, but get a more run down a/c.." Sure NJA is the largest and has a great recovery time, but the owners will need more recoveries because our planes are much older and beat up.

NJA will eventually make AA's furlough seem like childs play.

 

[LAZYB]

Unfortunatley, unlike a major airline, ther is no retirement age. So natural attrition is much slower than a major.

Also when things are good, majors add planes and increase routes whenever they feel necessary. At a fractional planes and pilots numbers are completely dependant on sales. There is no blueprint for max or min block hours that determine staffing.

The rub of it all is Netjets is now lagging behind the other fractionals, with much higher costs to the owners, and on top of that the owners are flying in much older a/c. So their selling points are "you'll pay more than the other guy, but get a more run down a/c.." Sure NJA is the largest and has a great recovery time, but the owners will need more recoveries because our planes are much older and beat up.

NJA will eventually make AA's furlough seem like childs play.

... and they're not chasing sales, but chasing salesman away. :smash:

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http://www.citationair.com/Press/CITATIONAIR®-JOINS-WITH-WEST-COAST-BASED-SALES-ADV

 

[jtf]

I've heard the lawsuits will be flying soon due to the sales team poaching customers in some manner that was either illegal or in violation of contracts they had previously signed. Honestly, I would probably leave NJA if I were in sales since they don't have any new products to sell and get the good commissions, but if they left and broke the rules I hope they get smoked by the lawyers- not that I have any love for lawyers or salesmen for that matter. I also hope the salesmen who left include two of the d-bags I've met in VNY and SDL. If so, NJA was fortunate to get rid of them because they were either very incompetent, scumbag liars, or both based on what I heard come from their lips on sales demos. I guess that could probably describe the majority of salesmen at the fracs though.

 

[BentOver]

R U seeing any talk of guys looking for other work? Or guys leaving currently. I know of one guy who flat out resigned because he found a new job.

On our side that's pretty much all we discuss anymore is job intel.


When ever legacies/ JB/ SWA/FDX all start hiring a bit, it will be interesting to compare NJA seniority lists.

 

[OPECJet]

I've heard the lawsuits will be flying soon due to the sales team poaching customers in some manner that was either illegal or in violation of contracts they had previously signed. Honestly, I would probably leave NJA if I were in sales since they don't have any new products to sell and get the good commissions, but if they left and broke the rules I hope they get smoked by the lawyers- not that I have any love for lawyers or salesmen for that matter. I also hope the salesmen who left include two of the d-bags I've met in VNY and SDL. If so, NJA was fortunate to get rid of them because they were either very incompetent, scumbag liars, or both based on what I heard come from their lips on sales demos. I guess that could probably describe the majority of salesmen at the fracs though.

Maybe that's why Sokol's caddy stayed as president when Chrome Dome left... He's a pissant lawyer. Right?

 

[jtf]

You have that right. Sokol brought in a culture of sue 'em all and screw 'em all as long as it is what is best for him personally and then the company. Things have shifted away from some of his poor choices lately, but the union busting lawyer is still the CEO and management is still following the union busters playbook pretty closely.

As far as guys on line looking elsewhere, I have heard of lots of us doing so, but relatively few finding anything and bolting. I think I remember hearing of a captain who bolted for Delta and one or two guys who have taken LOAs to pursue relatively short term positions. I know some people are leaving, but I don't know the exact circumstances. I believe I've moved up about 20 places this year, but I have no idea if most were due to retirement, firings, or jobs elsewhere. All I know for sure is that anyone in the bottom third or so of the current flying list better be keeping their options open and better be aware of what they could do if the letter comes.

 

[BentOver]

Without being on the union boards anymore...I'd assume there are many discussions going on over there about the future.. Possible furloughs etc...


Hopefully the new junior guys are not being told, "you were hired for a/c that never showed up. You shouldn't have been here anyways..." That one always rubbed me the wrong way....Especialy since I was there for a/c that did show up....

Or maybe the senior guys are telling them it's all about paying dues!! that was classic:smash:

 

[CA1900]

...was glass half full before)...

Hey, my glass is still half full. But that's because Sokol pissed in it...

 

[NJAowner]

Recoveries

Bent -- those great "recovery time" stories are old tales. I know first hand that many of your current recovery time statistics are "adjusted" to make it look better. NJ is no longer the recovery time leader and would have fewer recoveries if scheduling was better. That is like saying you put out fires faster than other fire departments, but the "better" fire department is one that practices fire prevention.

Plus, NJ lags the competition in the recovery time I think is most important to pilots -- recovering furloughed pilots and hiring more pilots.

 

[Willy21]

Hey, my glass is still half full. But that's because Sokol pissed in it...

The way Sokol ran the show I have traded in my glass for a five gallon bucket. I am thinking I might need to find something bigger. Does anybody have any suggestions?

 

[CA1900]

Naw, the bucket should be fine. I found some video of it in action...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGfXiIXTpE0

 

[LAZYB]

Naw, the bucket should be fine. I found some video of it in action...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGfXiIXTpE0

So we're still waiting for the shake.

 

[B-J-J Fighter]

Are people still on property and working really looking @ going to places like JB, SWA, Allegiant, Airtran, Spirit, etc. I hope I didn't miss a lcc.