Delta offers furloughs

[Tanker Clown]

Wow....thread creep. Can't we get back to trying to figure out how many folks at Delta will be let go and how much of their flying will be farmed out to RJs? Any talks of paycuts? Has the Delta union gone to the company of offer them up yet?

 

[General Lee]

Is this with or without a relaxation of scope, ie 100 seaters?

I didn't hear that rumor, but I don't know one person that would vote to let Comair or any DCI carrier fly 100 seaters. Maybe management asked for that, and that is why nobody else has heard it, it was DOA. But I would expect a pay raise at least that high, since the Airtran guys are getting that with the new Southwest raise. That helps our cause tremendously.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tanker Clown]

I didn't hear that rumor, but I don't know one person that would vote to let Comair or any DCI carrier fly 100 seaters. Maybe management asked for that, and that is why nobody else has heard it, it was DOA. But I would expect a pay raise at least that high, since the Airtran guys are getting that with the new Southwest raise. That helps our cause tremendously.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Delta...relax on scope....consider it done. When are they going to farm out the 737 flying? Soon I imagine. Looks like the only actual Delta flying left will be SONG!!!!

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Delta...relax on scope....consider it done. When are they going to farm out the 737 flying? Soon I imagine. Looks like the only actual Delta flying left will be SONG!!!!

Tanker: Run along, its time for the colonel's afternoon coffee. You know how he gets when he doesn't get his foot rub.
I'm sure you're letting the afternoon paperwork back up again. Hurry along. You need to work extra hard to pay for that 737 type if you ever want to sling gear for that Air Tran f/o.:laugh:

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Tanker: You need to work extra hard to pay for that 737 type if you ever want to sling gear for that Air Tran f/o.:laugh:

Now THAT Shiite was funny!!!!!:beer:

 

[FBN0223]

See, I see it as a little different. I blame SWAPA for allowing the company to charge each new pilot hire for a type, thus lowering the cost to the company, I then see a pilot group that prior to the CH11 era got paid a lot less than we did. I saw a well managed company (SWA) undercutting everyone else and their pilots willing participants in lowering their costs and as a result no one could compete. This resulted in SWAPA pilot being better paid today, and them earning the "Darling of the Industry" title, but the reality is that they undercut every other pilot group out there. It seems everyone's memory is so short that they forget the way it was ten years ago.

Much of the reason we are where we are today, is because of SWA(SWAPA's) willingness to cut the piloting trade off at the knees for their own gain.

Not a popular position, but one that needs to be stated.

Southwest just has a different strategy and it has worked well. Part of that strategy is hire pilots who want to be there and let them fly ALL of your airplanes.

The Delta Airlines product, in many aspects, is poor because it's simply not Delta Airlines. Instead it's Skywest, Compass, Shuttle America, Pinnacle, Mesaba, ASA or someone else. In many cases, these pilots and cabin crews are flying the Delta system one day and the United system the next which leads to an inconsistent and sometimes poor service for our customers.

When you outsource customer service the product suffers, it's that simple.

 

[General Lee]

Southwest just has a different strategy and it has worked well. Part of that strategy is hire pilots who want to be there and let them fly ALL of your airplanes.

The Delta Airlines product, in many aspects, is poor because it's simply not Delta Airlines. Instead it's Skywest, Compass, Shuttle America, Pinnacle, Mesaba, ASA or someone else. In many cases, these pilots and cabin crews are flying the Delta system one day and the United system the next which leads to an inconsistent and sometimes poor service for our customers.

When you outsource customer service the product suffers, it's that simple.

FBN,

I know you aren't happy about the RJ situtation, nobody really is except lifers at DCI. Here is an article that might make you feel better:



http://www.centreforaviation.com/new...gs-calls/page1


It's about Delta putting the squeeze on DCI carriers. Yes, there is still a problem, and even with Comair shrinking to 44 total planes, and 50 seaters leaving the fleet quickly. Yes, 12 more E170s are coming aboard, almost up to the cap or limit on those planes. With the DPA gaining strength, maybe ALPA will get the hint and make sure mainline concerns are expressed during upcoming negotiations. I don't see any more 70 or 76 seaters being allotted, and I hope UNICAL gets some tighter scope and maybe takes some back. I hope for the same here, and without BK looming, it will be a priority. As far as SWA payrates and benefits, thanks to Airtran getting the same, it will be a major target for us coming up. It helps when our primary ATL competition over the years gets the same as SWA.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ACL65PILOT]

FBN;
That is all well and good, but do you remember when that 643 aircraft RJ order was made by DAL. Do you remember who they were trying to compete with? Do you recall that DAL, a legacy was trying to slash costs so that they could deal with this cancer, SWA.

When a group is willing to do more work for less money, and pay for their training, the industry as a whole suffers. Now look at the last 12-15 years and realize that since that time, SWA has been growing and your airline has been suffering the effects of pilots and employees in general being willing to do "your" work for less than you. It trickled down to most Legacy pilots in the CH11 era, but it started with a little airline from Texas that cherry picked routes of legacies that had Regulation Era costs.

It is good for the consumer, and good for the SWAPA pilots, but it has not been good for the rest of the industry. All legacy pilots made mistakes by selling scope, and to date SWA has not needed it. As their debt increases, the pay model will start to morph over there, or management will want some "feeder" support. In the end it will be the tail wagging the dog. Our selling of scope, and miserable contract will ultimately effect pilots at SWAPA because CH11 made us more efficient and undercut them. They better hope or costs rise, because if they do not, our compensation levels will cause theirs to stagnate more than they already have.

 

[Tanker Clown]

Tanker: Run along, its time for the colonel's afternoon coffee. You know how he gets when he doesn't get his foot rub.
I'm sure you're letting the afternoon paperwork back up again. Hurry along. You need to work extra hard to pay for that 737 type if you ever want to sling gear for that Air Tran f/o.:laugh:

That Air Tran FO is soon to be making more than you are. Ha ha ha ha. And he's at a stepping stone airline. Shoot. Even after an Air Tran CA get's stapled at SWA, he'll be making more than an 88 or 73 Captian is at Song. And that's as an FO.

 

[GoodTimes]

ACL,

The legacy airlines have been mismanaged for years. Point the finger where it belongs instead of at the pilot group of SWA. They're highly compensated now and the company still makes money. The reverse is true at the legacies. In my four years at UAL; 3 CEO's, Avolar, UsAir merger (DC Air anyone?), TED, BK......the list goes on. Does anyone really think these airlines would be doing fine if SWA was out of the picture?

 

[dicko]

. Even after an Air Tran CA get's stapled at SWA, he'll be making more than an 88 or 73 Captian is at Song. And that's as an FO.

The AirTran Captain is probably already making more than the Delta Captain.

Random 9th year AirTran guy:

9th year pay. Captain: $153 an hour. ($158 in December)
78 hour minimum if on Res.
Realistic average is 87 hours of credit because you're not on Reserve

117-137 Seat aircraft.

Random 9th year Delta guy:

He's still an FO, but let's pretend he's a Captain.

9th year Delta MD88 Captain rate: $155 an hour.
70 hour guarantee. Commuting to reserve in NYC ....

144 Seat aircraft.



You do the math. The Retirement fund is 1.5% difference.

 

[jonjuan]

See, I see it as a little different. I blame SWAPA for allowing the company to charge each new pilot hire for a type, thus lowering the cost to the company, I then see a pilot group that prior to the CH11 era got paid a lot less than we did. I saw a well managed company (SWA) undercutting everyone else and their pilots willing participants in lowering their costs and as a result no one could compete. This resulted in SWAPA pilot being better paid today, and them earning the "Darling of the Industry" title, but the reality is that they undercut every other pilot group out there. It seems everyone's memory is so short that they forget the way it was ten years ago.

Much of the reason we are where we are today, is because of SWA(SWAPA's) willingness to cut the piloting trade off at the knees for their own gain.

Not a popular position, but one that needs to be stated.

Nice solid, factual, unemotional post. Many at wn refuse to admit how they got where they are.

 

[jonjuan]

When you outsource customer service the product suffers, it's that simple.

People buy the cheapest tickets, it's that simple.

 

[jonjuan]

Southwest just has a different strategy and it has worked well. Part of that strategy is hire pilots who want to be there and let them fly ALL of your airplanes.

Walmart also has a "different strategy" which allowed them to grow and prosper. Buy all your cheap crap from China and dump it.

 

[redflyer65]

Nice solid, factual, unemotional post. Many at wn refuse to admit how they got where they are.

The factual part is 40 years of profit from a great management team, vs DL (well, not so much).