Delta offers furloughs

[On Your Six]

Pretty weak arguement OYS. Let me ask you this...

Would you rather be working for a carrier like Delta that ALREADY does long-range international, or...

a carrier like Southwest who doesn't YET do any (and if you think that will stay the same you have your head in the sand). Do you understand the growth potential in option number 2?

Keep doubting SW for another 40 years, please.

RF

.

I would rather fly for one that is already an established player, one with slots and planes that can do it. What you don't see is that unless you want to go to out of the way airports like Ryanair in Europe, you had better start applying for gates and landing slots at every major airport in Europe. Then, find a partner there with local expertise, who knows the local intel. Then, pick a plane to make it over there, and stand in line waiting for the new planes.

The FAA and DOT like giving you guys slots here in the US, but foreign governments might not be as receptive, especially if you intend to go after their own national airline. So, slots anywhere else may be tough to get. Airline partnerships may also be tough to find. Most big airlines are a part of huge alliances, and they use their people to service all alliance partners' planes, which saves costs.

And you may be Boeing's best customer, but don't expect to jump infront of any other Major airlines (international and domestic) for new planes, like the 787. Airlines like Qatari or Korean Air just won't put up with that, and Southwest isn't even on their radar. You can try to buddy up to them, but they probably don't care.

I hope this doesn't discourage you, but rather gives you insight into some of your future international speed bumps. It just isn't as easy as you would think. Delta's Europe routes were developed at Pan Am originally over decades. Northwest's Asia flying has been around for decades and many treaties. When both are doing well, they are huge money makers. You can try to walk in and start your own service, but it won't be the same. People's Express tried it, and that isn't one you should try to copy.



OYS

 

[Muskycat]

Kidding right? You ever read the dozen or so SWA folks on here that continually go on about how wonderful they are and how and how all other airlines suck? How about how ALPA sucks and SWAPA is the answer or how code sharing with RJ's to feed mainline is a crime but farming out an expansion to Mexico with Volaris 737's is OK. How SWA pilots, who for years and years worked for much lower pay and benefits than the industry standard and after a few years of getting their pay up start harping like they are the answer,...... how it's wrong for some guy who paid for RJ training to advance his career but it's OK to buy a 737 type to get a job?.... how they want to merge with an airline and enjoy all that it brings to the table but thinks it's pilots should play some kind of subservient role and be just be happy they are now SWA pilots???

Now that said, I'M NOT BASHING YOU GUYS, the simple fact is everything goes in cycles. You are doing very well, certainly no were near as well as DAL was in it's heyday, but good nevertheless. That will change, for both airlines. Not if, but when. We all live glass houses.

So true!

 

[MILPILOT17]

During sim training. They cover it for indoc, and then guys have to cover it on their own. Most guys just get a crash pad behing Virginia Avenue. Nothing like buying a type for a job though.

SWA doesn't require anyone to buy a type; only that you have a type prior to class.

 

[FBN0223]

Southwest: Southwest B737 Captains earn more than Delta B747/B777 Captains, SWAPA represents Southwest airlines pilots and Southwest Airlines pilots only, and Southwest has yet to outsource a good portion of it's flying to the lowest bidding air carriers.

Delta: Low pay, a union who represents Delta pilots and almost everyone else, and outsourcing is alive and well. It is quite easy to buy a ticket on Delta.com, fly across the US or around the world for that matter and never have a Delta pilot employed on any flight segment. Thanks ALPA.

My hat's of to the Southwest pilots, you guys and gals are doing it right.

 

[On Your Six]

SWA doesn't require anyone to buy a type; only that you have a type prior to class.

So, unless your dad owns a 737 simulator, or you got one at a previous carrier, you will have to pay for one, right? Most people then will have to pay for one, and that isn't right. A bad, old policy that luckily a bunch of Airtran pilots now won't have to follow. Will SWAPA require the Airtran guys to forfeit $10k now in order to be "accepted" on their list? Read the fine print Airtran guys.


OYS

 

[redflyer65]

Southwest: Southwest B737 Captains earn more than Delta B747/B777 Captains, SWAPA represents Southwest airlines pilots and Southwest Airlines pilots only, and Southwest has yet to outsource a good portion of it's flying to the lowest bidding air carriers.

Delta: Low pay, a union who represents Delta pilots and almost everyone else, and outsourcing is alive and well. It is quite easy to buy a ticket on Delta.com, fly across the US or around the world for that matter and never have a Delta pilot employed on any flight segment. Thanks ALPA.

My hat's of to the Southwest pilots, you guys and gals are doing it right.

Nice post FBN. And I agree 100%. The Anti-SW crowd just can't stand the fact that we get treated well from management, make a ton of money and really enjoy our jobs. It's a great place to work, and that makes it a great place for passengers when the workers are happy. Very simple.

Oh, and keep everything 'in-house', of course.

A 5k type rating? Chump change in the big picture, plus you can either right the whole thing off or get the GI bill to cover it. 'Nough said.

RF

 

[General Lee]

Nice post FBN. And I agree 100%. The Anti-SW crowd just can't stand the fact that we get treated well from management, make a ton of money and really enjoy our jobs. It's a great place to work, and that makes it a great place for passengers when the workers are happy. Very simple.

Oh, and keep everything 'in-house', of course.

A 5k type rating? Chump change in the big picture, plus you can either right the whole thing off or get the GI bill to cover it. 'Nough said.

RF

Too bad you can't share that "enjoy our jobs" part with the Airtran guys. You'd rather pressure them into accepting something they do not deserve. I bet you agree 100% with that too, but just won't say anything. And is a 5 or 10K type rating chump change to an RJ guy who may already be struggling? What if he doesn't get the job? Has that ever happened before? Sure it has.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Ronnie75]

Southwest: Southwest B737 Captains earn more than Delta B747/B777 Captains.

DAL 747 Capt = $217/hr. SWA 737 Capt = $210/hr. Is that accurate? Still a complete travesty.... just questioning that statement.

 

[redflyer65]

Southwest Captain pay is 186.06 per trip.

A simple 1.15 conversion would yeild an hourly rate of about 214/hr.

Many longer haul flights would convert at 1.18, being 219.55/hr.

With the possiblity of easily making 110-120 trips if desired. (no union imposed caps)

RF

 

[redflyer65]

Too bad you can't share that "enjoy our jobs" part with the Airtran guys. You'd rather pressure them into accepting something they do not deserve. I bet you agree 100% with that too, but just won't say anything. And is a 5 or 10K type rating chump change to an RJ guy who may already be struggling? What if he doesn't get the job? Has that ever happened before? Sure it has.


Bye Bye---General Lee

Hey General, the Airtran guys are gonna be fine, they will get a FANTASTIC new payscale and be much better off with all the QOL issues and a friendly management team....and they deserve it! And many, many people have interviewed at SW without the type rating, and were hired.

RF

 

[On Your Six]

Hey General, the Airtran guys are gonna be fine, they will get a FANTASTIC new payscale and be much better off with all the QOL issues and a friendly management team....and they deserve it! And many, many people have interviewed at SW without the type rating, and were hired.

RF

But they still needed to pay for the type before they attended class, right? Same difference.

And will the Airtran guys get this pay and great, friendly management team without giving in to SWAPA's demands, sending it to arbitration? Could that happen?


OYS

 

[On Your Six]

Southwest Captain pay is 186.06 per trip.

A simple 1.15 conversion would yeild an hourly rate of about 214/hr.

Many longer haul flights would convert at 1.18, being 219.55/hr.

With the possiblity of easily making 110-120 trips if desired. (no union imposed caps)

RF

Most of the whale Captains have a full pension along with their own 401ks. But, it does appear to be a travesty for sure. But, that will be corrected shortly, with rumors of pay bumps in the 20-25% range (supposedly turned down due to lack of other adjustments wanted also) offered recently. If that is true, then a whale Captain would be making about $250 or more per hour, which is an improvement. Throw in more increases in other sections, and the talks could progress I bet. (I would throw in better scope myself)


OYS

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Southwest: Southwest B737 Captains earn more than Delta B747/B777 Captains, SWAPA represents Southwest airlines pilots and Southwest Airlines pilots only, and Southwest has yet to outsource a good portion of it's flying to the lowest bidding air carriers.

Delta: Low pay, a union who represents Delta pilots and almost everyone else, and outsourcing is alive and well. It is quite easy to buy a ticket on Delta.com, fly across the US or around the world for that matter and never have a Delta pilot employed on any flight segment. Thanks ALPA.

My hat's of to the Southwest pilots, you guys and gals are doing it right.

See, I see it as a little different. I blame SWAPA for allowing the company to charge each new pilot hire for a type, thus lowering the cost to the company, I then see a pilot group that prior to the CH11 era got paid a lot less than we did. I saw a well managed company (SWA) undercutting everyone else and their pilots willing participants in lowering their costs and as a result no one could compete. This resulted in SWAPA pilot being better paid today, and them earning the "Darling of the Industry" title, but the reality is that they undercut every other pilot group out there. It seems everyone's memory is so short that they forget the way it was ten years ago.

Much of the reason we are where we are today, is because of SWA(SWAPA's) willingness to cut the piloting trade off at the knees for their own gain.

Not a popular position, but one that needs to be stated.

 

[Data]

... with rumors of pay bumps in the 20-25% range (supposedly turned down due to lack of other adjustments wanted also) offered recently....


OYS

Is this with or without a relaxation of scope, ie 100 seaters?

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Much of the reason we are where we are today, is because of SWA(SWAPA's) willingness to cut the piloting trade off at the knees for their own gain.

Not a popular position, but one that needs to be stated.

Right after waveflyer and redflyer are done butt slapping each other for the job well done, they'll be here to tell you that swa and swapa have been holding the line the industry. Oh yeah, and how you're just a hater.

 

[Tanker Clown]

Wow....thread creep. Can't we get back to trying to figure out how many folks at Delta will be let go and how much of their flying will be farmed out to RJs? Any talks of paycuts? Has the Delta union gone to the company of offer them up yet?

 

[General Lee]

Is this with or without a relaxation of scope, ie 100 seaters?

I didn't hear that rumor, but I don't know one person that would vote to let Comair or any DCI carrier fly 100 seaters. Maybe management asked for that, and that is why nobody else has heard it, it was DOA. But I would expect a pay raise at least that high, since the Airtran guys are getting that with the new Southwest raise. That helps our cause tremendously.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tanker Clown]

I didn't hear that rumor, but I don't know one person that would vote to let Comair or any DCI carrier fly 100 seaters. Maybe management asked for that, and that is why nobody else has heard it, it was DOA. But I would expect a pay raise at least that high, since the Airtran guys are getting that with the new Southwest raise. That helps our cause tremendously.



Bye Bye---General Lee

Delta...relax on scope....consider it done. When are they going to farm out the 737 flying? Soon I imagine. Looks like the only actual Delta flying left will be SONG!!!!

 

[Scope out RJ's]

Delta...relax on scope....consider it done. When are they going to farm out the 737 flying? Soon I imagine. Looks like the only actual Delta flying left will be SONG!!!!

Tanker: Run along, its time for the colonel's afternoon coffee. You know how he gets when he doesn't get his foot rub.
I'm sure you're letting the afternoon paperwork back up again. Hurry along. You need to work extra hard to pay for that 737 type if you ever want to sling gear for that Air Tran f/o.:laugh:

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

Tanker: You need to work extra hard to pay for that 737 type if you ever want to sling gear for that Air Tran f/o.:laugh:

Now THAT Shiite was funny!!!!!:beer: