Why Won't Delta Try?

[waveflyer]

I agree w/ most of what Gen said- of all the legacies I'd choose to work at delta- but it is still very sad how much more DAL execs make than SWAs. Another example of the ridiculous transfer of wealth from labor and the middle class to those at the top that is killing this country. Not capitalism: it's abuse of power and cronyism.

I hope that Gen is right and a new crowd who gets it is in charge who have learned scope lessons and ready to get a raise- time will tell

Good luck

 

[General Lee]

Another day, another delusion about the greatness of Delta for the General. Face it General, you may have started at a good airline with good pay, but now you work for a low paying, money hemmoraging feeder for Com Air. People now ditch Deltta and their great international overnights to fly 737s and overnight in LBB. You can't blame them. It's just the rats jumping off the sinking ship.

Thanks TANKY. Do I dare venture into even trying to explain to you what has happen? Ah heck, why not? Things are not as bad as you say, of course. DL pilots are paid fairly well, but many things need to changed for the better in upcoming contract talks. Now that Airtran will be included in Southwest's great pay scheme, it will undoubtably help the cause. Comair will actually be reduced to only 44 total planes, so that isn't true. It was a poor quarter, but again last year had almost the same result, and the rest of the year was profitable. The first quarter of this year had some TERRBILE things happen, like the Japan earthquake and resulting catastrophies, and ice storms in ATL that hurt Airtran and Delta. It's amazing the loss wasn't even worse. So far I don't think many Delta pilots have left for Southwest, primarily since the merger with Airtran will put anyone hired after the announcement at the bottom of a stagnate list. Even when you eventually get your buddies to get you onto SWA, you too will be at the bottom, doing plenty of LBB or Tunica layovers. By that time the pay will be equal or better at Delta most likely, and you will be left with Ty or Gup as your Captain, sitting at the bar, ordering Wild Turkey, and talking about your exciting days as lead of the Cafeteria cleaners in Okinawa. Enjoy that!


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tanker Clown]

Ha ha ha! Delta pay same as SWA! You guys will take pay cuts (again) before that happens. BTW, I have 3 friends who left Delta to go to SWA. They did say they enjoyed the Vinice overnights, but they go to work to make money. And making money isn't what Delta pilots (or the while company) is good at. Maybe if they could have gotten on at Song it would have been a different situation.

 

[General Lee]

I agree w/ most of what Gen said- of all the legacies I'd choose to work at delta- but it is still very sad how much more DAL execs make than SWAs. Another example of the ridiculous transfer of wealth from labor and the middle class to those at the top that is killing this country. Not capitalism: it's abuse of power and cronyism.

I hope that Gen is right and a new crowd who gets it is in charge who have learned scope lessons and ready to get a raise- time will tell

Good luck

Wave,

Thanks for the good response. I know exactly what you mean, and it is amazing GK doesn't take in a lot more cash. I have seen the comparisons. He deserves more. I also continue to say that your contract is FANTASTIC, and I hope that we try to emulate it after the DALPA contract talks. In all fairness, I do actually like the current Delta management, salary notwithstanding. I think they are sharp, and they do have a lot on their hands with the Japan stuff going on, yeilds going up and down in the Atlantic, and then the domestic fight. This is a true Worldwide airline, and that means a lot of fronts to battle, including employee contract talks upcoming. I think they know that they have gotten a "good deal" since both DL and NWA BKs, and even the joint contract was a tad bit concessionary thanks to $130 a barrel oil at that time too. Bad timing.

As far as my continued jabs at your SLI, I am not trying to malign your airline. Even though I enjoy where I fly and what I fly, I don't think yours is a bad airline at all. I just wouldn't want to personally fly there. I love your pay and benefits though. I can't speak for OYS, but I too think there should be some fairness in the eventual list, and I just don't think any airline can negotiate that fairly between two groups. It is just too personal, and seniority is FOREVER as people continue to say (until the next merger). I see arbitration as a good thing for both groups. If one is confident in their own position, and they prove that with the lawyers, then great. Even though you will be a direct competitor in ATL, I know several pilots on each side, and another USAir is NOT what our total pilot community needs.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Ha ha ha! Delta pay same as SWA! You guys will take pay cuts (again) before that happens. BTW, I have 3 friends who left Delta to go to SWA. They did say they enjoyed the Vinice overnights, but they go to work to make money. And making money isn't what Delta pilots (or the while company) is good at. Maybe if they could have gotten on at Song it would have been a different situation.

If you say so Tanky, if you say so. Enoy the military, that doesn't waste money at all.


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[Tanker Clown]

I would be a great fit at Delta. Like the Air Force, Delta too is a not for profit operation.

 

[General Lee]

General...that was a very informative short term history lesson. I agree with you on 99% of it.

However, with AirTran leading the way for Int'l Ops for SWA, I think you will see a large increase in international flying for the new merged carrier. Furthermore, I also think you will see an announcement of a 3rd fleet type soon, possibly at the Paris Air Show this summer. Could be a version of the 787 or could be Boeing's new design, (tentatively named the 797). My bet is on the latter.

Delta is a great carrier. I commute on them 50% of the time. Good infrastructure, customer service, and professional appearance. Now if you could just get those ATL gate agents to understand that a Passport is not required when occupying a cabin seat for Jumpseating purposes; only sitting on the actual cockpit jumpseat requires that.

I apologize if that happened to you. I don't commute since I live here in ATL, so I don't really know. I would call the jumpseat coordinator and your airline, and he/she could call ours, and talk about it. I am sure there are some gate agents that are misinformed, and that needs to be corrected.

As far as your thoughts on big INTL travel on SWA, you might be right. I just don't think so, because those markets are quickly becoming saturated. Single airlines flying particular routes across the atlantic are quickly being replaced by groups, like SkyTeam and One World. Look at American and British Airways. Between London Heathrow and JFK, there is now almost hourly service between the two on AA and BA. They use AA's feed into JFK, and BA's feed into LHR to fill the planes. Now, SkyTeam does the same from Paris to the USA, and also AMS to the USA. Delta has 3 or 4 767-400s from LHR to JFK also, further adding to the glut. Big corporations and putting their people on these "teams" to save money on corporate contracts with the airlines, and those people could fly on any team from anywhere to anywhere. CAL/UAL and USAir are in the Star Alliance, DL is in SkyTeam, and AA in OneWorld. That fills up most of the INTL flying from the US. Now, Southwest would aim for the leisure traveller no doubt, not associated with corporations, and more worried about costs. On the other side of the Atlantic, there are a couple airlines also hungry for the same. Ryanair has already pointed out that they are interested, and at one time thought about getting A330s (not Boeing like the rest of their fleet) for Trans Atlantic travel. Easyjet is another one waiting. Then you have Air Berlin, who is number 2 in Germany, and already bought LTU and has continued flying lower fare flights from DUS and MUC to LAX, RSW, MIA, and the Carribbean. If Southwest attempts to try something similar, Ryanair (who is just as successful) and Easyjet will pounce, and that will mean even more seats available for not that many leisure passengers. The 787 or 797 may be a great fit for Southwest, but there is a finite amount of people that can afford that travel, and way too many seats already. Throw in every country over there has their own larger airline, and won't give up without a fight, and then you have got a bigger problem. You have got to have the feed capability here in the US, and you have got to have onward connections there to places that most cannot get to nonstop from here. That is the good thing about alliances. I guess you can ally yourselves with Ryanair, but they seem to fly from far out airports to keep costs down (something Southwest used to do more often), and that would mean trying to do the same. Add to that strict EU laws, and tough to get slots at bigger airports thanks to protectionism, and it will be a tough task. IMHO.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I would be a great fit at Delta. Like the Air Force, Delta too is a not for profit operation.

Then you and I could fly together, and remember, I will buy the 3rd and 5th rounds. But, we need to split the 6 wings, and medium only since I can't handle super hot foods. Since you said I don't make enough money and you have a huge AF pension, I would appreciate you buying 1st, 2nd, and 4th rounds. Look forward to it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Tanker Clown]

Don't worry Lee, I'll pay the whole tab. Don't really know how we'll end up flying together. You'd have to upgrade first. And judging by the quarterly results, it looks like there will be layoffs before there will be upgrades at Delta.

 

[DieselDragRacer]

Then you and I could fly together, and remember, I will buy the 3rd and 5th rounds. But, we need to split the 6 wings, and medium only since I can't handle super hot foods. Since you said I don't make enough money and you have a huge AF pension, I would appreciate you buying 1st, 2nd, and 4th rounds. Look forward to it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

:laugh:

 

[DonVerita]

G.L.,

I should have stated that the AAI/SWA Int'l ops arena will probably be geared toward Central and South America, at least for the foreseeable future. I don't see trans-atlantic anytime soon for the same reasons you mentioned, especially the lack of connection capability via alliance to onward destinations. But, SWA has a reputation for thinking outside the box, so we'll just have to wait and see what develops.

I know you didn't mean it, but please don't insult us by even insinuating that there would be any type of code-share or alliance with Ryanair. They are the dried piss at the bottom of the pot.

 

[General Lee]

G.L.,

I should have stated that the AAI/SWA Int'l ops arena will probably be geared toward Central and South America, at least for the foreseeable future. I don't see trans-atlantic anytime soon for the same reasons you mentioned, especially the lack of connection capability via alliance to onward destinations. But, SWA has a reputation for thinking outside the box, so we'll just have to wait and see what develops.

I know you didn't mean it, but please don't insult us by even insinuating that there would be any type of code-share or alliance with Ryanair. They are the dried piss at the bottom of the pot.

Don,

I wasn't trying to insult you, rather just trying to think of another LCC with a similar model to yours. Yes, they are NO FRILLs times 10, so maybe Easyjet would have been a better example.

As far as the Caribbean and South America goes, I can see you guys trying more of that. Airtran already does a lot of the Caribbean (Aruba, Punta Cana, etc), and other LCCs have started doing South America (Jetblue from MCO, Spirit from FLL). Delta flew 737-700s to Manaus, Brasil, and that was a bit of a stretch due to frequent bad weather near the Equator. I don't know if there are a lot of untapped markets down there, or a lot of extra passengers that want to go on a plane without a first class option for more than 5 hours. Delta does very well to Rio, Sao Paulo, Buenos Aires, Santiago, and Lima, but all of those are on widebodies, and they also carry a lot of cargo. I guess Southwest could explore some of those cities, but they may want to jump on that wagon sooner than later, since Jetblue and Spirit are already trying the shorter segments from Florida. Central America is really poor. Yes, I know Southwest already flies to San Salvador for MX, but there just isn't a lot of traffic down there. Delta flies to all of the Capitals, like Tegucigalpa, Managua, San Jose, Liberia, Belize City, Roatan, San Pedro Sula, Guatemala City, and Panama City. Spirt does a lot of those too, and Jetblue also. Add in CAL flying to each of those from IAH, and the market is pretty full already. I guess you can try, but you may be a bit late to the party. I see you are an Airtran guy, and that means you do know more about the Caribbean than some of the others. What I can't believe is how big Jetblue has gotten in SJU. AA has really pulled out of a lot of markets from there, and JB has really just swept them up. Amazing.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Don't worry Lee, I'll pay the whole tab. Don't really know how we'll end up flying together. You'd have to upgrade first. And judging by the quarterly results, it looks like there will be layoffs before there will be upgrades at Delta.

Wow, thanks man. Thanks for picking up the tab. You can have 4 of the 6 wings, ok? Just please, please make them Medium and not HOT. I just can't take it. And, you and I might be the two FOs on INTL flights, along with a cheap Capt. Can you pick up his tab too? He would appreciate it. We could all go to Rio and then hang out at the pool, where we get a 30% discount on nachos. Cool.


Bye Bye--General Lee