F-4 v. F-16

[lowtimedriver]

Talked with a retired F-4/F-16 pilot. He said that the F-4 was better at low altitudes than the 16. Thoughts?

 

[Lear Wanna Be]

I'd take a fighter with two guys vs. one any day. At least when you get back from the mission you don't have to sit at the bar alone.

 

[brokeflyer]

f-4 don't have a gun....so i find that hard to believe.

 

[Lear Wanna Be]

What does a gun have to do with anything? Plus, the F-4E had an internal nose mounted 20mm cannon. Earlier F-4s like the D had gun pods. I just don't see the correlation though.

 

[CrewDawg]

Talked with a retired F-4/F-16 pilot. He said that the F-4 was better at low altitudes than the 16. Thoughts?

Haha...If there are any old timers (F-4 Drivers) on here, this could get interesting! I'm going with the Viper, but I may be a little biased... It's hard to compare, they're two totally different generations. The F-4 may be faster, but that's not really a huge factor anymore. If I'm going into combat...i'm going with the Viper any day of he week!

As far as him liking the F-4...

It is appearances, characteristics and performance that make a man love an airplane, and they, are what put emotion into one. You love a lot of things if you live around them, but there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, nor any before nor any after, that is as lovely as a great airplane, and men who love them are faithful to them even though they leave them for others. A man has only one virginity to lose in fighters, and if it is a lovely plane he loses it to, there his heart will ever be................

- Ernest Hemingway, 'London Fights the Robots,' written for Collier's, August 1944

I'd take a fighter with two guys vs. one any day. At least when you get back from the mission you don't have to sit at the bar alone.

That's why we have a wingman! I can't stand flying the two seater, with the backseat empty....it's even worse when there is someone back there!

What does a gun have to do with anything? Plus, the F-4E had an internal nose mounted 20mm cannon. Earlier F-4s like the D had gun pods. I just don't see the correlation though.

A gun has everything to do with it. Putting a gun in the F-4E was the smartest thing they ever did to that jet. As we have seen, every fighter since then has a gun...lesson learned! Unfortunately, that lesson is written in blood.

A fighter without a gun . . . is like an airplane without a wing.

— Brigadier General Robin Olds, USAF

This was in reference to the F-4! If you have no idea who Gen Olds is...google him then read his book!

One of the first things the guys wanted was a gun put in the F-4. The pod was a bandaid to get by until a gun was installed.

If you want to talk about a real mans plane, we need to be discussing the THUD!

 

[LearLove]

A gun has everything to do with it. Putting a gun in the F-4E was the smartest thing they ever did to that jet. As we have seen, every fighter since then has a gun...lesson learned! Unfortunately, that lesson is written in blood.

Only the AF version (A model) of the F-35 will have a gun (built in). The Navy and Marine version will have a pod.

 

[CrewDawg]

Only the AF version (A model) of the F-35 will have a gun (built in).

Like I said...lesson learned!

The Navy and Marine version will have a pod.

I can't help it if our sister service isn't smart enough to learn from the past. You can't fix stupid!

 

[brokeflyer]

What does a gun have to do with anything? Plus, the F-4E had an internal nose mounted 20mm cannon. Earlier F-4s like the D had gun pods. I just don't see the correlation though.

you dont get it....

 

[ExAF]

Nolo Contendere

I've flown both. My first love was and always will be the F-4 (last of the real men's fighters). That being said, If I had to go to war today either down low or up high, I'd choose to go in the F-16 over the mighty Rhino any day of the week.

 

[414Flyer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmXvQqEcJZ8

It just would not be the same with F-16s

 

[LearLove]

ExAF - where did you fly the A-37?

 

[ExAF]

Noise AND Smoke!!!

The best airshow ever was Tbirds in the F-4. Noise, vibrations, smoke (even when they had "smoke off") and a 3 mile turn radius! The "sneak attack" from behind show center was always a crowd pleaser...babies crying, dogs barking, vets hitting the ground for cover and car alarms going off. It just didn't get any better!

ExAF - where did you fly the A-37?

I flew them in Panama 88-90.

 

[Diesel-9]

If I had one flight left in life I would take an F-4. Actually there are a couple missions I would still prefer an F-4. The A-7 was very good Air-Mud. The Viper was very good in the Air-Air mode and something special. Would love to bring a Rhino down initial at 500+ one more time. Would be even better to be on the ground to watch and hear it.

It is appearances, characteristics and performance that make a man love an airplane, and they, are what put emotion into one. You love a lot of things if you live around them, but there isn't any woman and there isn't any horse, nor any before nor any after, that is as lovely as a great airplane, and men who love them are faithful to them even though they leave them for others. A man has only one virginity to lose in fighters, and if it is a lovely plane he loses it to, there his heart will ever be................

- Ernest Hemingway, 'London Fights the Robots,' written for Collier's, August 1944

 

[StrykerFL]

I agree, however when the Blue Angels flew the F-4 it really kicked arse!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzm45r2t10g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC8zEPnXZMQ

 

[xrated]

The best airshow ever was Tbirds in the F-4. "car alarms going off".

Did car alarms even exist when the T-Birds flew f-4's?

 

[AA717driver]

I signed up to be a WSO in the FWA unit when they had C models. I backed out because I started taking flying lessons and learned the airlines were hiring people with less than 20/20. But I sure regret not going through with it. That's gone and you can't get it back...

We have property right under the confluence of a bunch of low level routes in Southern Indiana. Back in the early '80's, it was an airshow every Saturday. F-4's from INANG and AFRES, A-7's from OHANG, A-10's from GUS. IT ROCKED!

As a newhire at TWA, taking lunch out in the parking lot and watching the MOANG "E" models in the pattern with green F-15's, F-18's and Harriers. All the McD flights doing the Viking Climb off RW 24. Priceless.

You guys who got to do that have a great gift. It will never be that way again.

Thanks!

TC

 

[ExAF]

Yep

Did car alarms even exist when the T-Birds flew f-4's?

Yep....they did, but they weren't standard equipment like on today's cars. They weren't as prolific.

 

[Freebrd]

If you want to talk about a real mans plane, we need to be discussing the THUD!

so correct, not saying F4s aren't either, just read any Thud book on what those patriots went through in 'nam, their missions, think they lost almost half of the production run of 105s there, plus that thing had a 4 stage burner I think, cool when they took off and that thing lit up

 

[Diesel-9]

I really enjoyed this book. "Bury Us Upside Down" Story about the F-100 Fast Fac's and the battle for the Ho Chi Minh Trail. http://www.amazon.com/Bury-Us-Upside-Down-Pilots/dp/0345465385

 

[HoserASA]

I really enjoyed this book. "Bury Us Upside Down" Story about the F-100 Fast Fac's and the battle for the Ho Chi Minh Trail. http://www.amazon.com/Bury-Us-Upside-Down-Pilots/dp/0345465385

I just finished reading Col Bud Day's book, "American Patriot" (believe that's the title), and it was awesome. Col Day started the F100 Fast Fac program and this book tells about that and his tour in Vietnam, subsequent capture and time spent as a POW. Col Day also is the most highest decorated Officer with the Medal of Honor among his numerous decorations. The Col is one tough dude!