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ASA ALPA Survey Comments

  • Thread starter Thread starter Redan
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Redan

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 8, 2004
Posts
251
General:

Shortly after the current contract was signed life became nice at ASA...briefly. Then as company began finding ways around most provisions via the ridiculously weak contract language, things have changed dramatically with little support from ALPA reps. Our schedules and lines are awful. Scheduling is terrible. Our trips have degraded dramatically with few enjoyable overnights remaining. Most of us are stuck on four day trips and away from home longer. Reserve is heinous with often 25% of our pilots on reserve. Maintenance is understaffed and suspect. Chief Pilots are unresponsive when needed, but right there to assign discipline at any opportunity (an arena where representation is admittedly much appreciated). Our company is no longer trustworthy and is resorting to intimidation tactics. And worst of all: our elected reps are now seen to be company shrills and also not trustworthy. Then we witnessed the PBS show with company and our elected reps singing the same song. This of course, was an ominous warning sign of things to come. Now as our quality of life has plummeted to rock bottom we see our reps at the cusp of negotiating a JCBA. Virtually the same crowd who brought us the weak '07 contract, the PBS agreement which is also full of holes and lacks substantive reserve improvements, is now to be trusted with the most important instrument of all, the JCBA.

Folks, your credibility is at an all time low. You are now seen as a country club with your 6 hours per day. Very few of us have any confidence in you any longer. Many would vote to ouster ALPA if given the chance, others are scheming for recall. In my opinion, you will no longer be able to count on the widespread apathy among the ranks. I would therefore suggest gentlemen, that it would be in your own best interest to get it right. That means FOR ALL OF US from seniority number one down to the lowest reserve pilot!


Scheduling:

Receiving an ACARS msg while on arrival/approach for scheduling issues is not acceptable any more than a radio call was! This and other ACARS msgs are distracting pilots at inopportune times. This must be fixed! How did we ever agree ACARS was an acceptable form of notification in the first place!? The stupid auto dialer system is rapidly becoming a solid pain in the buttocks as well ringing phones repeatedly on off days, etc. BULLCRAP!

In regards to reserves, the present situation is beyond unacceptable! The philosophy of our elected reps that reserves are there to take all the heat off of line holders WILL NO LONGER BE TOLERATED! There is a growing group amongst our pilots who are not going to allow this horsecrap to continue. The suggestion by you guys that line holders accept reserve days in their lines to relieve reserve pilots is not the answer! Clearly the answer is to improve reserve conditions markedly, making life on reserve tolerable. At many carriers reserve is frequently bid for by senior pilots because it has favorable work rules. Why is this not acceptable here? The bloody archaic notion that reserve pilots must suck it up for line holders is solidly rooted in the dark ages. Obviously conditions in modern day see pilots trapped on reserve seemingly in perpetuity, often year upon year. How in God's name do you guys and the senior pilots justify allowing so many of your COLLEAGUES to have to bear the antiquated and intolerable reserve conditions here? And on top of that, as much as reserves have stepped up for so long, they must also bear constant harassment and intimidation from CPs despite the fact that they've majorly helped carry the company. And where is ALPA on that? Telling us "we can't do anything which might infringe on the rights of the line holders." And that company isn't holding out any flying from lines into open time. Right! If you folks truly feel reserve pilots have less rights then we will begin instituting a dues reduction/waiver program for them.



Personal Time/Sick Time:

It is well past time for ASA to join the 21st Century and provide for personal time for its pilots. The present situation requires a pilot to call in sick in most cases and can easily lead to disciplinary proceedings from the company CPs who are out for blood. Currently, attempts to receive personal time off legally usually require us to go through the very contentious Chief Pilots Office. Often, if one is actually able to reach a CP, the outcome is not favorable even when justified. As our company grows more and more contentious with CPs who will place blame on pilots at every opportunity, it is time for our elected reps to step up and support the ones they represent on such issues.




Scope:

For me and everyone I've talked to, solid provisions for scope protection will be necessary for a yes vote on the JCBA. None of us will be satisfied without provisions preventing SKW Inc from transferring aircraft or flying to another airline under their control. Desired protections will also include provisions preventing the creation of alter ego airlines as well as acquisitions. Of course the ultimate objective must be to see one list between SKW, ASA and XJT.
 
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I agree with almost everything you said above, with one minor exception: I know reserve sucks. I did it for a long time-back when it sucked a lot more. I remember when I was hired, the scheduling dept manager told us during our first day on property that we would get fired for not answering the phone at any time-including any of our days off. He said we could sit by the phone or sit in the unemployment office. I know it sucks-we used to be in the suck as well. You have my sympathy on the reserve issue, but the big picture is that life is supposed to eventually get better-and it will. Reserve blows-and it always will. It is just an unfortunate part of airline life.

As far as our reps: I have less than zero confidence that they will do the right thing with the JCBA. They are scary these days. It is almost as if they are working for SH and CT directly. It is scary the amount of stuff you hear coming directly from mgmt. and also from our reps verbatim. Bottom line is: we are screwed with these guys at the helm. They are way too cozy with mgmt. I have never seen it anything like this.

XJET will hopefully bring a more balanced philosophy to the table. I don't like the hardcore approach like Comair used to have either, but we have to have some kind of fight. When we pay 2%, we really need to be represented on some level. I am sick and tired of the feeling that our local ALPA office as simply an extension of our G.O.

It seems that every issue we have, from red arrow days to reserve to staffing to this ACARS mess is simply another excuse for our reps to stick up for the company, for them to explain that our contract doesn't say what they told us it said when we went to a roadshow, and to demonstrate more clearly that we were sold a complete bill off goods-by our own freaking union!

-They have had their time to fight. They had their time to fix things in arbitration, to draw some lines in the sand. They squandered each and every opportunity. We need new representation, and hopefully XJET guys will make better decisions in choosing reps than we have. Our current guys are just plain pathetic. Paying 6 hours per day for this kind of horsecrap is an insult. It feels like we are paying 2% for a little shoe-shine job straight from CT himself.
 
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I agree with almost everything you said above, with one minor exception: I know reserve sucks. I did it for a long time-back when it sucked a lot more. I remember when I was hired, the scheduling dept manager told us during our first day on property that we would get fired for not answering the phone at any time-including any of our days off. He said we could sit by the phone or sit in the unemployment office. I know it sucks-we used to be in the suck as well. You have my sympathy on the reserve issue, but the big picture is that life is supposed to eventually get better-and it will. Reserve sucks and always will.

so, in your estimation, since it sucked when you did it (probably for only a few months) it should always and forever suck, even for this that do it for 3 years or more. (What if its 5 or 6 or longer?). That makes no sense. This isn't a frat, and reserve is not initiation or a hazing to get in the club! If your argument is correct, why isn't reserve crap at Delta or American, or even to a lesser extent, ExpressJet?

Thanks for the solidarity! Perhaps you speak out of selfishness for fear any gain reserve pilots get will cost you.......
 
Thanks for the solidarity! Perhaps you speak out of selfishness for fear any gain reserve pilots get will cost you.......

That's it. It's "me me me" and "I've got mine, now screw you."

It's time for everybody to accept that the regional airlines are changing, and this is no longer the place to pay your dues and put up with a terrible QOL. Not too long ago an 8 year captain was a senior lineholder, maybe even on the 700. Now, an 8 year captain can't hold a line on the most junior equipment in Atlanta.

I agree that even with improved work rules reserve will suck (just because you will have no idea what you are doing tomorrow), but that doesn't mean we shouldn't attempt to make it not suck.
 
so, in your estimation, since it sucked when you did it (probably for only a few months) it should always and forever suck, even for this that do it for 3 years or more. (What if its 5 or 6 or longer?). That makes no sense. This isn't a frat, and reserve is not initiation or a hazing to get in the club! If your argument is correct, why isn't reserve crap at Delta or American, or even to a lesser extent, ExpressJet?

Thanks for the solidarity! Perhaps you speak out of selfishness for fear any gain reserve pilots get will cost you.......

That is not what I was trying to imply at all... I would love to see reserves have it much easier. I agree they have it really bad right now, BUT.... Reserve is always going to suck worse than a line would. It is simply the nature of the beast. Reserve is never as good as holding a line no matter who you work for-it never can be.

I also agree that there are WAAAAY too many pilots on reserve here, but again that is something the union could have and should have resolved long ago. All the "proper staffing protections we were sold as a reliable part of this contract were useless. The union is 100% responsible for such weak language that this ever happened in the first place.

-Another part of the contract which was misrepresented to us.
 
Agreed. There are waaaaaay too many, and a line is better. It seemed like you were saying too bad, reserve sucks - deal with it.
 
But why does reserve have to suck so bad? Why not make it appeal to more so that a senior person might bid it? What reason can't we have solid rules that do make it livable for the over 5 years of reserve I have done at this company? Because a line holder doesn't want to invest negotiating capital for it because it doesn't apply to them?
 
Fantastic post. 100% accurate. I had a problem conveying on paper my frustration with this situation and my job. Instead of trying to work towards resolving these issues, all I hear is "suck it up", or "why not just quit".

Our union is clearly off the tracks and doesn't care. In a time when 25% of our list is on reserve they claim to have "examined" scheduling records and deemed that scheduling wasn't holding back more open time than is allowed (6% I think) REALLY? either they are complete idiots, or they think we ARE. Well, evidently we are because we allow them to lie to us with NO CONSEQUENCES.
 
To correct you, nearly 35% of 200 Captains on reserve!!!! 1 in 3! Nobody
does ANYTHING! Union agrees it cuts down red arrow days for lineholders!
 
So 35% doesn't violate the amount they are able to hold back? Anybody know what that is? 6%, 12%?

Once again I ask. What keeps them from creating 50 hard lines and putting the rest of us on reserve? Nobody seems to know or care much.

Great flexibility for scheduling. Anybody else feel like the company is testing our resolve for putting up with this?
 
Agreed. There are waaaaaay too many, and a line is better. It seemed like you were saying too bad, reserve sucks - deal with it.

Sorry-

I didn't mean to come off like that at all.. Joe Merchant is the guy for that pompus B.S.... It is his specialty, seeing that he is our own version of Gen Lee.
 
Fantastic post. 100% accurate. I had a problem conveying on paper my frustration with this situation and my job. Instead of trying to work towards resolving these issues, all I hear is "suck it up", or "why not just quit".

Our union is clearly off the tracks and doesn't care. In a time when 25% of our list is on reserve they claim to have "examined" scheduling records and deemed that scheduling wasn't holding back more open time than is allowed (6% I think) REALLY? either they are complete idiots, or they think we ARE. Well, evidently we are because we allow them to lie to us with NO CONSEQUENCES.

I have to agree, I don't often post here but on this one I have to second that. CM was in the ATL crew lounge a few months ago talking up PBS and I bought up how the reserve system needs to be changed. This is what I suggested for a new reserve system. First do away with GDOs, instead make 4 day blocks of reserve using 3 different reserve periods (AM, PM, and NAP). Crew planning knows when they need the most reserve coverage based on block hours and sick calls. The reserve lines would be 4 on followed by a minimum of 3 off. Scheduling cannot move days off. That's your schedule, you can only be used within your reserve footprint, but if scheduling just has to use you outside that footprint it would be 1.5 pay on top MMG. I would limit RR to no more than 4 hours. The question then becomes what to do about LCR, because with a 12hr call out and only 4 on, that limits how they can be used and the company is going to balk. So we know that LCRs get assigned much of the uncovered open time, so why not let them bid on it. Maybe within 48hr of your 4 day block you can bid on any trip that falls within your 4 day LCR. If a trip is partly in the 4 day window and partly out and you bid and can hold it, scheduling has to drop the part that is out, but they can add within in your 4 day window honoring the 12hr call out.

Any uncovered reserve days could be put into open time, if a line holder picks up reserve days they would get the greater of min day credit or block time regardless of whether they were used or not.

When I brought this up, CM came up with some BS about some rotating RR that when I looked at it, I thought he was absolutley nuts. There was no way anyone would go for it.

My $.02, discuss.
 
When I brought this up, CM came up with some BS about some rotating RR that when I looked at it, I thought he was absolutley nuts. There was no way anyone would go for it.

My $.02, discuss.

lonestarpilot, I like that idea.

If CM doesn't like it to bad! He doesn't make policy

Take it to SP, RV, AH, KA, and DN. Blow up their phones with the idea. Get all the reserves on board with it.
 
I have to agree, I don't often post here but on this one I have to second that. CM was in the ATL crew lounge a few months ago talking up PBS and I bought up how the reserve system needs to be changed. This is what I suggested for a new reserve system. First do away with GDOs, instead make 4 day blocks of reserve using 3 different reserve periods (AM, PM, and NAP). Crew planning knows when they need the most reserve coverage based on block hours and sick calls. The reserve lines would be 4 on followed by a minimum of 3 off. Scheduling cannot move days off. That's your schedule, you can only be used within your reserve footprint, but if scheduling just has to use you outside that footprint it would be 1.5 pay on top MMG. I would limit RR to no more than 4 hours. The question then becomes what to do about LCR, because with a 12hr call out and only 4 on, that limits how they can be used and the company is going to balk. So we know that LCRs get assigned much of the uncovered open time, so why not let them bid on it. Maybe within 48hr of your 4 day block you can bid on any trip that falls within your 4 day LCR. If a trip is partly in the 4 day window and partly out and you bid and can hold it, scheduling has to drop the part that is out, but they can add within in your 4 day window honoring the 12hr call out.

Any uncovered reserve days could be put into open time, if a line holder picks up reserve days they would get the greater of min day credit or block time regardless of whether they were used or not.

When I brought this up, CM came up with some BS about some rotating RR that when I looked at it, I thought he was absolutley nuts. There was no way anyone would go for it.

My $.02, discuss.

What open time? PBS remember?
 
I agree with the original post.


I have shared this before on the alpa forum, but here's my 2 cents on what needs to be done:

1. We need to close the alpa offices. Our alpa reps need to be in the crew lounge! Set them up a desk in the corner of the crew lounge. Right now it is too easy for them to be "out of sight - out of mind". I believe if they had to face the pilots they represent :rolleyes: everyday, I believe they would be a little more accountable.

I just came through a grievance process. Never once did I feel like I was being represented! To get anything done, I had to call and call, email and text. You have to aggravate the sh it out of them to get anything done!



2. We need to fire our alpa lawyer and DEMAND alpa provide a better one!
My grievance eventually went to mediation (or whatever its called). Our lawyer was so unprepared it was embarrassing. He started trying to argue my case, it was so obvious he didn't know what he was talking about. He had everyone jumping page to page in this info packet he made up. Most didn't have anything to do with my case. Everyone's packet was out of order and pages were missing. He just confused the whole group. He was a cluster.

My meeting lasted maybe 20 minutes. But in that short time frame, it was sooo obvious our layer was not together. Now, the company's lawyer....it didn't take but just a few minutes to realize he had his act together. You could just sense he was a bulldog.



3. We don't need pilots negotiating our contract. We need pilots giving input...and have an experienced professional to negotiate. Baseball players don't negotiate there own contracts. There hire professionals to do it. I am sure they are involved. But they are not sending a bunch of outfielders in there to negotiate.
 

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