ASA ALPA Survey Comments

[No Delay]

Here's 2 questions for our reps:


Are there any loop holes in the section of the contract that got you 6 hours per day?



How is it that you could negotiate 6 hours of pay for a couple of hours in an alpa office...but could only get me 4 hours of pay for my 8 hours of ground school or my 8 hours of ready reserve?

Just wondering


Here's an idea: You get paid what we get paid. Then maybe every 6 months let the pilot group vote on some type of bonus pay. If the majority of the pilot feel you have done a good job, we can back pay you the extra 2 hours. Or if you only get 40% approval, you get 40% of what your bonus could be. Man, that might motivate someone. We could vote on each person individually.

 

[lonestarpilot20]

What open time? PBS remember?

Well that's true, but in that case I suspect there will be fewer conversions to LCR. And another thing, scheduling could only convert one 4 day block of LCR to SCR with no RR per month.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Here's 2 questions for our reps:


Are there any loop holes in the section of the contract that got you 6 hours per day?



How is it that you could negotiate 6 hours of pay for a couple of hours in an alpa office...but could only get me 4 hours of pay for my 8 hours of ground school or my 8 hours of ready reserve?

Just wondering

This little hidden gem really burns me up. No personal motivation to sell this POS PBS to the pilot group....noooooooooooooo.....

 

[the palm]

This little hidden gem really burns me up. No personal motivation to sell this POS PBS to the pilot group....noooooooooooooo.....

I don't get it. Why would you be mad about that? Seems to me that paying someone 6 hours a day for doing work is WAY better than giving them a 100+ hour guarantee for doing nothing.

 

[COOPERVANE]

You know Palm, right after I posted that I thought better of it. When I had heard about that 6 hours of pay it was 'splained to me that it was an increase from four hours. I hadn't verified it with any credible source.

So you are saying this is INSTEAD of the 100 hour guarantee?

 

[the palm]

You know Palm, right after I posted that I thought better of it. When I had heard about that 6 hours of pay it was 'splained to me that it was an increase from four hours. I hadn't verified it with any credible source.

So you are saying this is INSTEAD of the 100 hour guarantee?

That's the way it was 'splained to me. No more 100+ hr guarantees. Now they work 4 days a week in the office for 3 weeks and fly the other week.

Quick math = 4x6x3 = 72 hrs + whatever they fly.

This was changed by the new MEC reps due to a few "abusers" in the previous MEC. And I guess I'm no "credible" source either, but I did ask a rep about it.

 

[crj567]

That's the way it was 'splained to me. No more 100+ hr guarantees. Now they work 4 days a week in the office for 3 weeks and fly the other week.

Quick math = 4x6x3 = 72 hrs + whatever they fly.

This was changed by the new MEC reps due to a few "abusers" in the previous MEC. And I guess I'm no "credible" source either, but I did ask a rep about it.

Well-

Some do that, most don't.. I know a lot of guys get their trips taken for union work, so I am not sure exactly how that is compensated, but I do know of a few who are never on line anymore.

I have also heard of guys getting "persuaded" with credits. Obviously, whoever controls these new credits has a lot of power. All I know for sure is that everyone winds up on the same page with scary regularity. I am just pissed that we are paying dues to run our "2nd G.O." we get hosed enough by the original G.O. for free.

I really hope the XJET guys pay very close attention what has happened around here the last couple of years-it is a serious mess.

 

[JoeMerchant]

I really hope the XJET guys pay very close attention what has happened around here the last couple of years-it is a serious mess.

Have you been reading the XJT "crackpipe"? They have a bunch of whiners like you over there complaining about their MEC too....Y'all can get together and whine about which MEC you dislike the most...:laugh:

 

[the palm]

Well-

Some do that, most don't.. I know a lot of guys get their trips taken for union work, so I am not sure exactly how that is compensated, but I do know of a few who are never on line anymore.

Who? The rep told me that everyone in the ALPA office is now line qualified and flying every month. If he is lying to me I want to know.

 

[the palm]

Have you been reading the XJT "crackpipe"? They have a bunch of whiners like you over there complaining about their MEC too....Y'all can get together and whine about which MEC you dislike the most...:laugh:

Yes it is funny. It's like you could delete XJT and insert ASA in all their posts.

 

[Medeco]

If PBS does as the company hopes it will, Reserve will go senior. If we have several consecutive months of reserves doing 20hrs of flying or less, then the senior guys will bid it.

The only part of that, that will suck is crew scheduling will be told to assign every reserve the maximum RR assignments of 6 times.

So with PBS, I predict 6 days of RR, and a maximum 30hrs of block.

We shall see.

After figuring out all the negative sides to PBS, we get to negotiate a new contract with a management eagar to close a deal fast, in order to realize profits of a merged airline.

 

[crj567]

Have you been reading the XJT "crackpipe"? They have a bunch of whiners like you over there complaining about their MEC too....Y'all can get together and whine about which MEC you dislike the most...:laugh:

Yeah, Joe.... Things suck all over, but the main issue I have is that there is just a general feeling of these guys standing up for the company 100% of the time. Seriously-can you think of the last time we really battled with the company on ANY subject? Despite the numerous, incessant contract violations with our current contract, we just said "thank you sir-may I have another?!"

Maybe my pals at the crackpipe are numerous enough to help change the situation. Apologists such as yourself won't help any of us. If we are just going to go along with every single wish and demand the company can dream up, why the hell do we pay for a union? What is the point in "representation" when they are enablers more than reps?

 

[crj567]

Who? The rep told me that everyone in the ALPA office is now line qualified and flying every month. If he is lying to me I want to know.

You made the mistake of asking a rep. I suggest you ask someone who is not all that high-up, but does a little actual grunt work, you may get closer to the truth. Truth comes out when enough people see stuff happening.

There are ways of finding out what schedules actually get flown, and who flies. I will agree that some guys do fly a lot, on top of their union work. I can think of a guy right now who flies a full nap schedule, and does union stuff during the day. I have no problem with paying for that-it is tough to do that much work, and his heart is definitely in the right place. I can also think of someone who really hasn't flown in at least 5 years. There are more guys than you would think who will bid a schedule, and 80% of it will all go to a reserve at the last minute. There are far more of those guys than we can justify.

You can do some snooping, and you may be surprised at what you find with a little investigation. Maybe your pals at the CIA can give you a hand!

 

[777forever]

Have you been reading the XJT "crackpipe"? They have a bunch of whiners like you over there complaining about their MEC too....Y'all can get together and whine about which MEC you dislike the most...:laugh:

HAHA! You got that right! If crj567 is this much of a whiner at ASA, can you imagine what he would be like at Pinnacle, Mesa, or Comair? Kinda scary if you think about it!

 

[CX880]

HAHA! You got that right! If crj567 is this much of a whiner at ASA, can you imagine what he would be like at Pinnacle, Mesa, or Comair? Kinda scary if you think about it!

777forever, management called, they want you to come in tomorrow to update all the jepps for the -200 fleet. I told them you could make it, and would most likely volunteer for the 700 and 9 fleets as well.

 

[DHPFLYN]

SUPER REGIONAL = SUPER CONTRACT The company says how great we will be once we are all together so they better expect to pay. We all need to work together and not agree to a crap contract.

I have talked to alot of people at XJT and none of us want PBS except for some people in the union. Sound familiar ? I don't care what that contract says if pbs is in it's a no vote from me. We have 4 hrs airport reserve for 4 hrs of pay. They can't assign you anything over ACARS.

I am sure you guys have some good stuff in your contract that is better than ours we just need to all get together and vote NO until we get a SUPER CONTRACT !!!

Good luck to us all !!!!!!!

 

[OCP]

SUPER REGIONAL = SUPER CONTRACT The company says how great we will be once we are all together so they better expect to pay. We all need to work together and not agree to a crap contract.

I have talked to alot of people at XJT and none of us want PBS except for some people in the union. Sound familiar ? I don't care what that contract says if pbs is in it's a no vote from me. We have 4 hrs airport reserve for 4 hrs of pay. They can't assign you anything over ACARS.

I am sure you guys have some good stuff in your contract that is better than ours we just need to all get together and vote NO until we get a SUPER CONTRACT !!!

Good luck to us all !!!!!!!

I am no union lover, but the PBS system is actually pretty good. The only thing you guys at XJT would not have anymore is your vacation drop like it is. Other than that it is pretty much a better system than anything out there. Take some time to learn about it before you flat out reject it.
Now the crap "contract improvements" we got when it was signed is another matter.

 

[crj567]

HAHA! You got that right! If crj567 is this much of a whiner at ASA, can you imagine what he would be like at Pinnacle, Mesa, or Comair? Kinda scary if you think about it!

I would like to know why that other guy got kicked off the forum for his avatar, and how yours is somehow appropriate...

-Nice rebuttal, BTW.... Stuff could suck worse elsewhere. How are we ever going to get ahead in this industry with so many "it could be worse" clowns all over the place?

-I was beginning to think "it could be worse" in reference to your avatar, then thought better of it. I want to hurl whenever I see that huge repulsive ass staring at me. It is like someone filled a normal ass with a truckload of bowling balls!

-YUCK!

 

[FishandFly]

I agree with almost everything you said above, with one minor exception: I know reserve sucks. I did it for a long time-back when it sucked a lot more. I remember when I was hired, the scheduling dept manager told us during our first day on property that we would get fired for not answering the phone at any time-including any of our days off. He said we could sit by the phone or sit in the unemployment office. I know it sucks-we used to be in the suck as well. You have my sympathy on the reserve issue, but the big picture is that life is supposed to eventually get better-and it will. Reserve blows-and it always will. It is just an unfortunate part of airline life.

As far as our reps: I have less than zero confidence that they will do the right thing with the JCBA. They are scary these days. It is almost as if they are working for SH and CT directly. It is scary the amount of stuff you hear coming directly from mgmt. and also from our reps verbatim. Bottom line is: we are screwed with these guys at the helm. They are way too cozy with mgmt. I have never seen it anything like this.

XJET will hopefully bring a more balanced philosophy to the table. I don't like the hardcore approach like Comair used to have either, but we have to have some kind of fight. When we pay 2%, we really need to be represented on some level. I am sick and tired of the feeling that our local ALPA office as simply an extension of our G.O.

It seems that every issue we have, from red arrow days to reserve to staffing to this ACARS mess is simply another excuse for our reps to stick up for the company, for them to explain that our contract doesn't say what they told us it said when we went to a roadshow, and to demonstrate more clearly that we were sold a complete bill off goods-by our own freaking union!

-They have had their time to fight. They had their time to fix things in arbitration, to draw some lines in the sand. They squandered each and every opportunity. We need new representation, and hopefully XJET guys will make better decisions in choosing reps than we have. Our current guys are just plain pathetic. Paying 6 hours per day for this kind of horsecrap is an insult. It feels like we are paying 2% for a little shoe-shine job straight from CT himself.

Sorry, but I read your first sentence and just wanted to say... Suck it.

 

[the palm]

I would like to know why that other guy got kicked off the forum for his avatar, and how yours is somehow appropriate...

-Nice rebuttal, BTW.... Stuff could suck worse elsewhere. How are we ever going to get ahead in this industry with so many "it could be worse" clowns all over the place?

-I was beginning to think "it could be worse" in reference to your avatar, then thought better of it. I want to hurl whenever I see that huge repulsive ass staring at me. It is like someone filled a normal ass with a truckload of bowling balls!

-YUCK!

I kinda like the big booty.