GM flying private jets again

[Pistonpilot]

GM flying private jets again

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/04/business/04jets.html?_r=1

 

[LJ45]

of course, that is how things get done. Now if they could man up to those pricks in congress next time.

 

[kf4amu]

If you need government bailouts in order to avoid liquidation, "manning up to those pricks" is the last thing that will get it for you.

 

[stupidpilot]

If the jet is a tool that is utilized in a way that reduces costs then yes, they need to man up and tell congress to shove it.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

If the jet is a tool that is utilized in a way that reduces costs then yes, they need to man up and tell congress to shove it.

Even as a corporate pilot I cant say that line of crap with a straight face.

 

[TMMT]

Funny, we trucked in two Congress-critters recently aboard our jet... guess its okay for those in the ruling class to partake but not the providing class?

 

[stupidpilot]

Even as a corporate pilot I cant say that line of crap with a straight face.

Really? Look at the numbers. How much are the top executives getting paid? The numbers work out if you factor in all the additional time wasted when they fly commercial. When time is critical to make a business deal, sometimes millions of dollars can be saved by flying on your own aircraft. I'm surprised you don't know this sort of stuff being in the business and all.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Really? Look at the numbers. How much are the top executives getting paid? The numbers work out if you factor in all the additional time wasted when they fly commercial. When time is critical to make a business deal, sometimes millions of dollars can be saved by flying on your own aircraft. I'm surprised you don't know this sort of stuff being in the business and all.

Yeah. Really.

You sound like an NBAA campaign...a rather lame/ineffective organization (ever susbscribe to Airmail?)

Been in the business in departments from 2 to 30 pilots as a line pilot and a manager and I can tell you there is not a single one that wants to try and prove they "save money" Dont sell me some upper level managers pay justifys it. I dont think the public was convinced the GM Chairman was worth $1, nevermind $30 mil and his own GV. Do I agree with it? maybe not...but I wouldn't want to be selling that..in fact, I think he got canned and a lot of pilots lost their jobs? - even after that pathetic stunt of driving a hybrid to Washington (the ultimate low IMO)...ditto this scenario many other places, end result is pilots out of work.

If you are private you can do whatever you want, its your money...but a department budget vs hours flown in a Gulfstream/Global/Falcon is usually around $10k/hr. Thats an easy budget to slash in a public company losing billions and asking over-taxed, umemployed public for a loan to fill the tanks on a corporate jet filled with lobster and pigs (thats what the non aviation public sees)

You want to sell Privacy, Security, and Efficiency - things you cant really put a number on and the reason management keeps planes even in hard times and even under Gvt watch..(or is this an ego driven business?)...so basically you really want to lay low when the hypocrites beat the drum.

I love the idea of capitalism and I have always made my living (and a fairly good living) off corporate aviation. I have also yet to hear a pilot who does not sound like a fool telling the general public how a $50mil jet "saves money" To us it normal, to 99.99% of the general public its absurd and the media/clowns in DC have a easy target.

The lay low method is the preferred method IMHO. YMMV.

 

[K.V.]

Really? Look at the numbers. How much are the top executives getting paid? The numbers work out if you factor in all the additional time wasted when they fly commercial. When time is critical to make a business deal, sometimes millions of dollars can be saved by flying on your own aircraft. I'm surprised you don't know this sort of stuff being in the business and all.

That's a pretty lame argument. I don't know of too many "top executives" that are getting paid hourly.

 

[svcta]

There must be a tipping point at which the law of diminishing returns takes over, but at $2500-$3000/hr there are trips that can be routinely done for less than buying 4 people round-trip airline tickets with 2 day's notice. And, of course, we can execute these trips and have our people home in time for a late lunch, whereas the airlines would have meant a lost day in travel alone after connections and wait time. Plus the fact that the finer points of a Fortune 500 company's business can't be openly discussed in an airline setting. Plus the fact that our people regularly call in to meetings from their seat in the airplane whilst they're getting where they need to go, which means that they are getting business done during their travel time. That is more intangible, true, but does have value.
justfication
I don't think that it is fair to dismiss the justification of business jet travel out of hand like that. One person on a G-550 from TEB to SFO is poor utilization, but 4 people on a super mid of some kind hitting 3 different cities in one day getting things done is great utilization, and I would almost guarantee that it is a money saver versus airline travel to the same locations when you consider all points.

 

[stupidpilot]

There must be a tipping point at which the law of diminishing returns takes over, but at $2500-$3000/hr there are trips that can be routinely done for less than buying 4 people round-trip airline tickets with 2 day's notice. And, of course, we can execute these trips and have our people home in time for a late lunch, whereas the airlines would have meant a lost day in travel alone after connections and wait time. Plus the fact that the finer points of a Fortune 500 company's business can't be openly discussed in an airline setting. Plus the fact that our people regularly call in to meetings from their seat in the airplane whilst they're getting where they need to go, which means that they are getting business done during their travel time. That is more intangible, true, but does have value.
justfication
I don't think that it is fair to dismiss the justification of business jet travel out of hand like that. One person on a G-550 from TEB to SFO is poor utilization, but 4 people on a super mid of some kind hitting 3 different cities in one day getting things done is great utilization, and I would almost guarantee that it is a money saver versus airline travel to the same locations when you consider all points.

Finally, somebody that has a clue.

 

[con-pilot]

Ah yes, the old 'corporate aircraft justification' thing.

Quite a few years ago I attend a meeting held during an NBAA conference, you know, that yearly meeting where one can drink free and party every night. Anyway, this meeting was titled, "How to justify a corporate aircraft". It was a very nice meeting with a lot of very nice people with all kinds of graphs, charts, slide shows (pre-computer days) and a nifty short film.

At the end of this meeting there was a question and answer period or general observation about what had been discussed. So after I woke up, after falling asleep during the nifty short film, I walked over to where the microphone was and stated the following.

"This is way I look at a company buying a company/corporate aircraft.

1. The CEO and the COO want a aircraft, the company gets a aircraft.

2. The CEO wants an aircraft, but the COO does not want an aircraft, most likely the company gets an aircraft.

3. The CEO does not want an aircraft and the COO does want an aircraft, they may or may not get an aircraft.

4. The CEO and the COO do not want an aircraft, no company aircraft.

It's that simple folks."

Then I left and went to the Dassault party. They were trying to sell us a new Falcon 10, that's a hint on how long ago this was.

 

[400A]

That is one of the things I like best about my Gig.

One year, the accountant decided he did not like all the paperwork the plane created for him. He went on the attack to show the owner just how much the jet cost him per hour and that he should charter or go fractional. Being that we only fly 100 hours a year, I stood in horror and started updating my resume. Much to my surprise, the response came as follows.

I can in no form or fashion even attempt to justify this, but I can afford it and I want it. You deal with the paperwork! Do I make myself clear?

This was one accountant and three aircraft upgrades ago.....

I should clarify that he owns the airplane personally.

 

[FO4life]

A couple years ago I had this 5 day road show from hell. up early every day and had 2 - 4 stops each. no fun at all, but that is charter. on the last leg these guys and gals were drinking and having a good old time in back. we land and the lead guy is chatty cathy with us and gives a real nice tip. then tells me that the 30,000 or so they spent on the trip was nothing compared to the 10's of millions they made by doing all the meetings at once, they got to all the meetings and didn't lose there bags. and between the meetings they were able to have their own meetings on the aircraft.

 

[Freight Dog]

You want to sell Privacy, Security, and Efficiency - things you cant really put a number on and the reason management keeps planes even in hard times and even under Gvt watch..(or is this an ego driven business?)...so basically you really want to lay low when the hypocrites beat the drum.

... and there ya have it.

 

[earhart]

Let me this preface by saying I fly a for an oil company; the company can afford multiple aircraft and they are very useful tools for the business and I am very happy to be employed in a job I love.

But I have been told that extensive feasibility studies have been done over many years and at no time, for us, is a corporate aircraft financially justifiable vs commercial aircraft. It's just a fact for us and I would think most private operators.

On paper it doesn't work BUT, the convenience, privacy, security and time value alone are invaluable to the company and our senior executives. Sometimes you cannot justify everything on a spreadsheet.

As an aside, we once acquired a G-III (during the buyout of another company) for the princely sum of $1!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

A couple years ago I had this 5 day road show from hell. up early every day and had 2 - 4 stops each. no fun at all, but that is charter. on the last leg these guys and gals were drinking and having a good old time in back. we land and the lead guy is chatty cathy with us and gives a real nice tip. then tells me that the 30,000 or so they spent on the trip was nothing compared to the 10's of millions they made by doing all the meetings at once, they got to all the meetings and didn't lose there bags. and between the meetings they were able to have their own meetings on the aircraft.

This was a typical scenario 4-5 years ago when the economy was flying (literally) Not so today.

Nobody cared about GMs (or insert another big evil corporation) planes back then. Everyone was employed and spending. That changed and people needed someone to blame...on top of that we have a President/Congress who fueled the stupidity. Of course this was not hard when Mr GM shows up to get on the GVT tit in his own GV. Spectacular. Other places knew how to do the dance and stay low.

Anyhow - hopefully things continue to slowly improve. I dont care how they use the F'n planes, I'm just a driver and just want to see myself and my friends continue to have decent jobs. CEO's dont lose their life savings when they get laid off.

 

[stupidpilot]

This was a typical scenario 4-5 years ago when the economy was flying (literally) Not so today.

Nobody cared about GMs (or insert another big evil corporation) planes back then. Everyone was employed and spending. That changed and people needed someone to blame...on top of that we have a President/Congress who fueled the stupidity. Of course this was not hard when Mr GM shows up to get on the GVT tit in his own GV. Spectacular. Other places knew how to do the dance and stay low.

Anyhow - hopefully things continue to slowly improve. I dont care how they use the F'n planes, I'm just a driver and just want to see myself and my friends continue to have decent jobs. CEO's dont lose their life savings when they get laid off.

well said.

 

[BoilerUP]

A small business in our area is looking to start up a flight department with an airplane similar to ours, and very early on in their due diligence for ownership that company's CEO met with my boss to discuss the "ownership" side of having a corporate jet.

The CEO asked my boss how he financially justified owning a new jet, and my boss literally laughed at him and said "Justify? Hell you can't financially justify it! The question you have to ask yourself isn't 'How can I financially justify it?', but rather 'Can I effectively run my business without it?' All that money you'll spend buys you time. Next time you're stuck in Houston or Atlanta with a delayed or canceled commercial flight and miss a meeting with a current or potential client, think about how much your time is worth to you and your firm."

Perspectives like that, and the new reality of having a TSA agent look at nudie backscanner pictures of you or getting your testes felt up in an "enhanced patdown", are going to get more individuals & companies looking into ownership IMO.

 

[con-pilot]

A small business in our area is looking to start up a flight department with an airplane similar to ours, and very early on in their due diligence for ownership that company's CEO met with my boss to discuss the "ownership" side of having a corporate jet.

The CEO asked my boss how he financially justified owning a new jet, and my boss literally laughed at him and said "Justify? Hell you can't financially justify it! The question you have to ask yourself isn't 'How can I financially justify it?', but rather 'Can I effectively run my business without it?' All that money you'll spend buys you time. Next time you're stuck in Houston or Atlanta with a delayed or canceled commercial flight and miss a meeting with a current or potential client, think about how much your time is worth to you and your firm."

Perspectives like that, and the new reality of having a TSA agent look at nudie backscanner pictures of you or getting your testes felt up in an "enhanced patdown", are going to get more individuals & companies looking into ownership IMO.

Yes, I agree, in fact I'm still a bit puzzeld as to why those who can afford an aircraft, still use the airlines in this day and age of 'enhanced security'.