Regional airlines confuse, concern business travelers

[DieselDragRacer]

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2010-10-26-regional-airline-carriers_N.htm

 

[johnpeace]

"Regional airlines can no longer be considered the minor leagues. They are major players in the airline industry and they are here to stay," NTSB chairman Deborah Hersman said.

There's the direction this is going in...

But Captain John Prater, head of the Air Line Pilots Association. said major carriers partner with regional carriers in part to cut costs, creating extraordinary pressure to keep staffing to a minimum and salaries low. Some carriers promote pilots to captain with only a few hours of leadership training before putting them in charge of a passenger airline, he said.

Way to throw us under the media bus, pr1ck!

 

[kf4amu]

There's the direction this is going in...



Way to throw us under the media bus, pr1ck!

It's good for you...the more pressure on Majors to end outsourcing to the lowest bidder, the better your career will be.

 

[Jar Jar]

yup. The guy who trains me at a regional is a flunkie who couldn't get hired anywhere else.

 

[buscap]

Yeah, maybe!!!

But our Flight Attendants can beat up your Flight Attendants!!!!

 

[Flyin2low]

Yeah, maybe!!!

But our Flight Attendants can beat up your Flight Attendants!!!!

Yeah, Grannies vs Ghettos

 

[doh]

I find myself totally confused when I fly. I can't keep up with the subcontractors to the subcontractor. Republic Holdings has six operating certificates, for example. I presume that their ground crews are cross utilized to handle bags and they also use their mainline partners ground staff some of the time. There is no way you can know who's in charge. No wonder the public perceives that safety is compromised in this environment. One operating certificate and one responsible party.

 

[wms]

Most of the people that write articles for this paper are wannabee journalists, full-time bloggers that slept at a Holiday Inn last night . The blogger leaves a message with an industry insider and follows-up with a 10 minute phone call and then they publish it as journalism. And the people who read these articles , including FI.com cruisers, assume they are accurate. There is no credibility in any USAToday article and we post and discuss them on FI.com fueling the fire.

 

[WSurf]

Yeah, Grannies vs Ghettos

Hahahahahah!

 

[lookin4better]

All contract carriers with paint of real airlines........ how are these boys going to pick up girls with the truth out there?

 

[G2T]

The Business travelers? The true business travelers know the regional airlines better than some of us. They know how to find out who's flying their flight, and many book travel based on that.

As for safety, don't I remember this happening quite a while ago, when all the feeders became part 121 carriers? One level of safety?

 

[FDJ2]

As for safety, don't I remember this happening quite a while ago, when all the feeders became part 121 carriers? One level of safety?

The problem is we have one level of regulation, not one level of safety.

Just some of the short comings ALPA has identified:

- One-size-fits-all airline training programs are inadequate to address the varied experience levels and resultant needs of pilots being hired today.

- Airline training deficiencies have been found to be causal factors in several recent accidents.

- The FAA’s regulatory qualification requirements of a first officer are inadequate to ensure that they have the skills and knowledge needed before starting to fly for an airline. More rigorous academic and skills training, testing, and evaluation will improve pilot performance and help to cultivate pilot professionalism.

-The FAA’s recurrent training requirements for first officers can result in them receiving one-fourth the training that captains receive.

- Regulatory minimums for initial operating experience for new captains and first officers may be inadequate to address the pilot’s level of experience and proficiency.

- Some airlines have reduced or eliminated many of the valuable screening processes used in the past to identify capable and professional pilot candidates.

- A continuous training program improvement effort should include collecting and examining de-identified safety data from the airline’s flight operations to identify deficiencies specific to pilot experience levels.

- Some Flight Training Organizations (FTOs), referred to as “pilot factories,” churn out new pilots after only a few months of training. These pilots are hired as SICs immediately upon training completion. The pressure to produce pilots quickly has resulted in low-experience pilots flying the line who demonstrate many deficiencies and compromise safety.

- Training programs using a competency-based approach coupled with stringent academic curricula in lieu of the “required hours” approach in traditional training methodologies should be explored as a means to better train and qualify those
pilots coming into the airlines with minimal flight time.

- As training continues to move toward greater reliance on FSTDs, the advantages of a real-world training environment for pilots will need to be maintained in the simulated environment. Motion appropriate to the task being trained and/or evaluated is required because it helps replicate real-world conditions and provides a more valuable training experience. In addition, the high-volume ATC communications and dense traffic environments that airline pilots encounter must be replicated in the simulator.

- Simulators lack fidelity in regimes outside of normal flight. Simulator fidelity advances are needed so that maneuvers like aerodynamic stalls can be practiced in a realistic manner.

 

[buscap]

Something which is not addressed; mainline is able to have different training programs and do not have to deal with inexperienced pilots, simply because they can.

Picture a world in which regional's suddenly do not exist. Where exactly does mainline get their pilots? Not enough coming out of the military and small freight/check flying is not even close.

The street, is where they will get their pilots. They've done it before, they would have to do it again. It's all about the micro-economy of the airline industry.

So what would that say about the safety level of mainline?

For Alpa to comment on this is real nice, but to paint all the regionals with the same "unsafe" brush makes me want to stop paying dues. The training AT ASA is first class and I would put it up against any mainline, save for Cathhay.

The experience level at ASA is what it is, but my opinion on this matter is that it certainly must not be the most important factor. Mainline has been known to hire some of our least respected and experienced pilots based on nepotism (blood or not), gender, and race.

While I am not totally condemning those practices, as each except for nepotism, has a valid place in a progressive society trying to correct ingrained barriers to equality. But their mere practice and acceptance moots the entire argument about experience and qualification being the God and sole goal of mainline.

 

[HoserASA]

The training AT ASA is first class and I would put it up against any mainline, save for Cathhay.

Concur! Delta has done 'inspections' into ASA's training and left impressed. My experience with ASA IPs has been very good. They will do all they can to help you out. I even had one call me on a Sunday to see if I wanted to meet and go over some things. Thanks OF! And TP and TM.

Hoser
ROLL TIDE!

 

[johnpeace]

Concur! Delta has done 'inspections' into ASA's training and left impressed. My experience with ASA IPs has been very good. They will do all they can to help you out. I even had one call me on a Sunday to see if I wanted to meet and go over some things. Thanks OF! And TP and TM.

Hoser
ROLL TIDE!

I've had the same experience, my training at ASA in the classroom, sim and in the airplane has ALL been absolutely top notch.

I keep hearing about these regional airline 'safety compromises' and don't see where they exist at ASA.

More sensationalist media inaccuracies I guess.

 

[buscap]

I've had the same experience, my training at ASA in the classroom, sim and in the airplane has ALL been absolutely top notch.

I keep hearing about these regional airline 'safety compromises' and don't see where they exist at ASA.

More sensationalist media inaccuracies I guess.

Oh, those safety compromises do exist, and it would be quite easy for them to develop at ASA. At some other regionals, those compromises are status quo.

One reason our training is as good as it is; the EMB-120s killing people. That training department was bunch of ball-busters for a reason. I'm not quite sure how they ran such a good department with George and John running the ship.

But don't forget, it doesn't take system-wide problems to kill PAX. Individual failures which fail to take advantage of the good safety system backing us up, can easily render the whole system moot.

Comair in Lexington for example. That company was in many ways a mirror image of ASA, though at the time still saddled with the REJECTED DELTA MANAGEMENT program.

Mainline is no different. Take a great safety culture and throw a temporary or permanent idiot at it with just the right combination (chain) of events and next thing you know you've got a MD-88 in Little Rock's approach lights or a 767 Captain wondering why the runway lights are blue.

None of us can let our guard down, mainline or regional. But having a terrible operational, safety and training culture is a guarantee for disaster, whether you are doing the right thing or not.

But back on point, to paint all regionals with the same brush, simply as part of the "taking it back program" is a sure fire way for ALPA to get a decertification effort going at the regional level. I myself am not a fan of such actions, but until ALPA stops using my dues to smear me, I will consider it.

They can and should be more specific about exactly which airlines they are talking about.

 

[FDJ2]

For Alpa to comment on this is real nice, but to paint all the regionals with the same "unsafe" brush makes me want to stop paying dues. The training AT ASA is first class and I would put it up against any mainline, save for Cathhay.

The experience level at ASA is what it is, but my opinion on this matter is that it certainly must not be the most important factor. Mainline has been known to hire some of our least respected and experienced pilots based on nepotism (blood or not), gender, and race.

I don't think ALPA's painting anyone with a broad brush, other than to point out that the current regulations are lacking and making recommendations which should improve pilot training and safety industry wide.

 

[Flyer1015]

But back on point, to paint all regionals with the same brush, simply as part of the "taking it back program" is a sure fire way for ALPA to get a decertification effort going at the regional level. I myself am not a fan of such actions, but until ALPA stops using my dues to smear me, I will consider it.

As I've said before, and I'll say it again: ALPA simply cannot serve two masters.

 

[Draginass]

ALPA can't even serve one master, unless you consider that master the corporate managements. Moak did a pretty good job of that at Delta.