New (Older) Pilots staying w/ Regionals

[wuberoo]

Are there many 40+ yr old pilots coming out to the regionals? And because of their age, do they typically have to stay w/ the regional because of lack of hours and experience? Would you find many of them going overseas w/ low time?

 

[mesaserf]

The choices I made were my own. I have passed up chances to move on that were in retrospect poor judgment. I would like to think that I still have a chance to move on to another airline, and so far my choices are primarily overseas.

It is somewhat sad to think that to earn a good wage I must leave the country of my birth.

 

[IBNAV8R]

In the case of my airline (myself included), it has nothing to do with low time. Yes there are some 'late-start' new hires who may or may not stay. But a 40+ captain, who's been with the company 10 or more years, is probably bidding a fairly decent schedule, days off he/she wants, equipment she/he wants and makes sufficient (not great) money.

A few years ago, when majors were hiring, I looked at going somewhere else. It would have taken 8 years just to make parity (in pay alone). This assumes I would not have been furloughed. Of course, this would have been a grave assumption. Then, it would have been at least 15 years to upgrade and I would NEVER again have the QOL I have now.

My guess is that by the 40s, most regional pilots figure out that success and QOL are not measured by only looking at one's paycheck. And, they certainly don't worry about measuring up as a pilot solely by the size of their chosen aircraft - especially as they enjoy their beer from a lawn chair, on a holiday weekend, while watching 'heavies' fly overhead.

 

[amcnd]

Back in the day.. (no rj's) the max you could make was 50-60k at a good company. (so most people had to move on)...Today (RJ) its easy to break 100K. Live in base, Ski 3-4 days a week in the winter, bike ride in the summer... It's hard to think of commuting to JFK and give most of what i have up for years, before it starts to come back..

 

[Dumb Pilot]

The "Golden Handcuffs" are very difficult to get off, specially when at the age of 40+ you have a family and kids going to college etc. I don't think that there are many opportunities for low time guys abroad, just about every gig out there requires experienced pilots and the competition for those jobs is intense. You can't really speak in general terms because every individual situation is different (Wife has a good job, retirement from another source such as the military, a side business etc.) but the older you get pass the age of 40 the more your regional 10+ year seniority will become your career because to be able to go to a major at that point means that you have to subsidize that move with another source of income or make a huge sacrifice of savings/retirement funds. In my case I landed a pretty good opportunity and I'm happy with my choice but would I have left to go to UAL, CAL at the age of 43? difficult to say but I think it would have been unlikely.

 

[blott]

I skied 53 days last season...

B

 

[wuberoo]

OK, so if I understand it right from your replies, a new pilot at the age of 40 ish could be pretty comfortable after as long as he can stay w/ his Regional for some time instead of leaving after 7-8 years to a major because of the seniority? Is there somewhere on the site that would show a typical work schedule? And can anyone tell me what the new FED. Regulation really means w/ a 3 year window for training?

Thanks

 

[buscap]

So let's see here. Given the pay difference between a ten year legacy pilot and a Southwest pilot; is a legacy pilot a stupidly lazy inferior pilot, if he does not quit his legacy job and start at the bottom of Southwest?

The answer is obvious, but there are scenarios in which the move would make sense, but it is definitely the exception. We simply can't paint one another with the broad brushes usually employed on this board by legacy pilots..

While I know such criticisms have not surfaced on this thread yet, I just wanted to give everyone something to think about.

 

[wuberoo]

Let me clarify my question, I am 41 and am starting over w/ this career and I have no problem w/ flying overseas or having a regional position that would eventually pay something besides minimum wage. I just want to make sure which way to plan for.

 

[jeroom]

Interesting to see an interesting post with interesting answers on here... Been a while.

 

[Caveman]

I was hired at a regional at 42. My intent was to stay there until retirement. I lived in base, made $80K in year four and would have happily finished my career as an RJ pilot. Then my company filed BK, I was downgraded back to FO and took a 50% paycut. Best thing that ever happened to me. Fortune forced my hand. I had to start looking for a better paying job. I got lucky and was hired by a major a couple of months later. I was 47. Fast forward 4 years. Life is pretty good. I make a lot more money and my QOL has never been better even though I now commute. In my experience unless you are super senior at your regional you are way better off in the long run if you take the initial paycut and get hired with a major. I did it with only 12 years left until retirement and I have no regrets. YMMV.

 

[aa73]

It all boils down to what drives you. QOL and good seniority? DEFINITELY stay at your regional, especially past age 40. At that age, there is simply too much at risk in jumping ship. Of course, being at a regional that depends on its major is risky in itself, but a bird in the hand is worth.... On the other hand, if you are a person that places all of your value and self-worth based on what and where you fly, staying at a regional will make you miserable for your whole career, as you will be constantly suffering from "grass is greener" syndrome.

I've known both types. I have several friends who wouldn't DREAM of moving on from a regional. They simply have it that good, and I don't blame them one bit. Raking in close to $120K/year, weekends and holidays, a bunch of vacation, flying turns.. who in the heck would want to give that up for an uncertain future? Too much to lose. But then again, they've been there over 10 years so it's an easy decision.

Me personally? I would be one of those whack jobs that would give up 10+ years at a regional to move on. I guess I have a spirit of adventure and a desire to achieve a dream fulfilled of flying at a major. Yep, call me a geek, size envy, whatever... I never envisioned myself flying an RJ between DSM and ORD for the rest of my life. I always wanted to fly the longest possible routes in the biggest metal across the most vast distances. I was lucky enough to make it at age 26 after a year and a half at a regional, never even made CA. But then again, that was in the crazy 90s when every major was desperately hiring, turbine PIC wasn't even a requirement at AA. But I'd still be trying even if I was stuck at a regional today. That's just me, and most of my super senior regional friends tell me I'm delusional. Maybe, maybe not. Just be sure to identify what you really want before making a decision that you won't regret.

 

[wuberoo]

Thanks for the great comments, these are good things to consider. Are there things that an older pilot needs to be aware of when interviewing to stay away from or that would be advantageous to me?

 

[IBNAV8R]

The thing is, all the 'rules' are out the window right now and the future of an aviation career has never been less certain. If you want to fly (and you can afford the sacrifice), go fly. This is made MUCH easier if you have a career to go back to and/or can keep your hand in to supplement income. If you have a choice, go with a good outfit that will make a good place if you stay. A "stepping stone" carrier can be an awfully crappy place to spend years waiting for movement. When majors or other carriers hire, weigh where you are and the potential pros and cons of moving on. Even then, it's a gamble. Their are guys at my airline back in new-hire class for the third time (furloughed twice from majors).

I don't envy someone my age who must decide now whether to jump into an aviation career. At 30, I had the benefit of dumb luck and timing and I'm glad I made the jump. Good luck and godspeed.

 

[rumrnr78]

Not sure why the line got drawn at 40. Heck at 47 you still have a good 18 years to give an airline. Also, why are you focused on a regional? You could get your PIC there and wind up flying corporate pulling down some big bucks with stock, bonus, etc.

For your info the jobs here in Asia are very competitive and you need some decent PIC time to be considered. Also, the medical and testing standards are very different from the States. There is no one day "ATP" school that will guarantee that you pass. They can be balbusters out here.

Good luck with your training and your goals. Aviation can be a cruel mistress and there is no way to predict where you will end up. Heck, I was "surplused" with 18 other pilots from a Fortune 10 company only to find myself in Asia making more money and absolutely loving the adventure with my Wife. Getting laid off was the best thing to happen to me!

Cheers- Rum

 

[cldsfr79]

Me personally? I would be one of those whack jobs that would give up 10+ years at a regional to move on. I guess I have a spirit of adventure and a desire to achieve a dream fulfilled of flying at a major. Yep, call me a geek, size envy, whatever... I never envisioned myself flying an RJ between DSM and ORD for the rest of my life. entify what you really want before making a decision that you won't regret.

It seems to take this type of determination to make the leap into the majors when your a bit older and have been flying the line as a captain at a regional for years. It has to be about how bad you want it, more of an emotional decision.

For me, I have always told myself to not chase the dollar. Yeah it would be nice to pull down 200k a year in a 777, but what would I have to give up to get there? As someone pointed out, a lot of 10 year captains at regionals would have to take a pay cut for years just to break even to where they were. Of course you would have to start over as FO on reserve, then hold a terrible schedule, and probably commute to a place you don't live, and hope to upgrade at some point (maybe 10 years). Once you finally have a good schedule and you actually get to see you family, you then upgrade to captain, and once again you are on reserve, probably commuting to a different base and you forget who you kids are again. And that shiny 777 you wanted to be a captain in, you may never hold it. How does a 737 from ORD to DSM sound? But then again, you are living the dream by flying a big plane, for a major airline and your pulling down the big bucks. But at what cost?

I think QOL is the most important thing in life.

On the flip side, some regionals could be a great place to spend a career but it can be unstable. Your regional is just one contract away from furloughs or not flying at all. Look at what happened to ACA when United wanted them to fly for cheaper and ACA attempted to be an airline themselves, or Express Jet when they lost a lot of flying with Continental, or Mesa who is losing contracts at an alarming rate. Regionals end up being the puppets of the majors and a once great schedule or base that you held can be yanked away.

For me, I too will always "Dream" of being a major airline pilot flying large jets over the Atlantic, but sometimes reality is just not as sweet as dreams....that's why they are dreams...of course they look perfect and wonderful your brain. For me I'm hanging in the fractionals making good money and having a great QOL.

I hope the best to everyone's plans. Flying by far is one of the hardest careers out there to have success in.

 

[barondriver]

I started at a regional at 34.. Not that old, BUT.. As a career changer, I was more than happy to stay at my regional until retirement. I had to leave after four years (2 young teen kids who needed thier dad, and pay that wasn't getting better) and go back to my previous high paying career. Now at 42, The kids are grown, money is under control, and I have the blessing from my wonderful wife to go back. I would LOVE to get back to my regional and stay for 23 more years. Here's hoping!!

 

[buscap]

I started at a regional at 34.. Not that old, BUT.. As a career changer, I was more than happy to stay at my regional until retirement. I had to leave after four years (2 young teen kids who needed thier dad, and pay that wasn't getting better) and go back to my previous high paying career. Now at 42, The kids are grown, money is under control, and I have the blessing from my wonderful wife to go back. I would LOVE to get back to my regional and stay for 23 more years. Here's hoping!!

Dude!!

I own your muppet avatar!!

 

[no1pilot2000]

"If" an individual chooses a new career as a pilot for the regionals (40+ years old), which regional is a good or decent airline to possibly start and end their career?

 

[buscap]

"If" an individual chooses a new career as a pilot for the regionals (40+ years old), which regional is a good or decent airline to possibly start and end their career?

Geography will very much dictate the answer to your question, as the long term viability of all airlines except Southwest is always in question.

As an example when I jumped into this industry in 98, ACA was considered one of the best places to work. Good management, good training, and a strong union presence. It's a long sad story, but they have been out of business for quite some time. Comair is a similar story with simply a longer death spiral.

Your real intention should be to get in and get on with a major, good corporate, or fractional. The regionals should be your last choice. But if you do the regional thing, geography will really matter. Commuting will amplify every single problem with the job and steal most of your time off.

Don't get me wrong here, I love my regional job, but it was supposed to be a stepping stone which turned into a career. With that in mind, my experience and those of others I have observed, is that it is best to not commute. If you can get on with a regional in a place you would like to live, which also appears to be a bulletproof crewbase, your quality of life will be much better.

But there are no guarantees in this business, as Comair, ACA, and a few others can attest to, but there is no sense setting yourself up for a crappy life on purpose.

That's my take. There are commuters who live in what they rightly consider to be paradise and gladly put up with brutal commutes to do so. Bless them, but that's not for me.

 

[dojetdriver]

As an example when I jumped into this industry in 98, ACA was considered one of the best places to work. Good management, good training, and a strong union presence. It's a long sad story, but they have been out of business for quite some time. Comair is a similar story with simply a longer death spiral.

Quality of training depended on what fleet type you were on. Many others on here can attest to that.

As far as strong union presence goes, couldn't agree more. Granted, they (like EVERY everybody) else dropped the ball here and there once and while. But what I wouldn't give to have that leadership at my current employer.

You can toss AWAC in there as well. Although not in a "death spiral", a far cry from what they they used to be, sadly.

 

[wuberoo]

OK, so I have had a few years of college but no degree. I understand that this is another hurdle for me at 40 but is it really that big of a job killer? If you have the times and licenses and can interview well, could this be enough?

 

[Dubya]

Okay, this has gone on long enough.

Mesa sucks.

 

[say again]

"If" an individual chooses a new career as a pilot for the regionals (40+ years old), which regional is a good or decent airline to possibly start and end their career?

Do you not read the responses to the same question you ask in other threads? Read what Buscap said, it's pretty much dead on. Im a former ACA'er as well.

 

[dojetdriver]

OK, so I have had a few years of college but no degree. I understand that this is another hurdle for me at 40 but is it really that big of a job killer? If you have the times and licenses and can interview well, could this be enough?

If it says "4 year degree required", well.........

However, it's all supply and demand. It's also not unheard of to sometimes "bend" a requirement depending on who you know, etc

 

[pilotguy143]

I'm a current and soon to be furloughed Comair guy. Thankfully, I've only be at Comair for 3.5 years, it's the 10+ year guys who are getting furloughed that I feel bad for. Bottom line, go to a major and build seniority fast.

 

[xjhawk]

I was hired at a regional at 42. My intent was to stay there until retirement. I lived in base, made $80K in year four and would have happily finished my career as an RJ pilot. Then my company filed BK, I was downgraded back to FO and took a 50% paycut. Best thing that ever happened to me. Fortune forced my hand. I had to start looking for a better paying job. I got lucky and was hired by a major a couple of months later. I was 47. Fast forward 4 years. Life is pretty good. I make a lot more money and my QOL has never been better even though I now commute. In my experience unless you are super senior at your regional you are way better off in the long run if you take the initial paycut and get hired with a major. I did it with only 12 years left until retirement and I have no regrets. YMMV.

I am happy to see that someone has lived on what I plan on doing. thanks for the post

 

[79%N1]

So when is the General going to come on here and ruin this good thread by insulting and antagonizing RJ pilots to make him feel better about himself?

 

[Caveman]

OK, so I have had a few years of college but no degree. I understand that this is another hurdle for me at 40 but is it really that big of a job killer? If you have the times and licenses and can interview well, could this be enough?

I got hired without a 4 year degree, but that's not the norm. The hard part is getting the interview w/o a degree. It can be done but with thousands of qualified pilots with degrees looking for the same job the odds are really stacked against you. I wish I had better news for you, but that's the reality. Do whatever you have to do to finish your degree. It could be the only thing keeping you from getting an interview. I was lucky. Counting on luck is not a good career strategy.

 

[no1pilot2000]

I worked for ACA also. I enjoyed the people I worked with. Too bad it went out of business. Doesn anyone know who is using the former ACA maintenance hanger?