Will Spirit Survive if they WalK?

[8v8tr]

What are the chances if the pilots walk the company will survive?

Why did the MEC specifically ask for other carriers to pick up there flying if they go out, and this flying would not be considered struck work? Is this not certain death to Spirit? Is this what the pilot group wants or just the MEC?

How many times has ALPA been sucessful in a strike? How many times have they failed?

Flame away, but I think all valid questions and not meant as flame bait.

 

[Blue Dude]

It's only struck work if other carriers fly as Spirit Airlines and give the revenue to Spirit. If other carriers pick up the slack and keep the revenue, it applies enormous economic pressure on Spirit to settle quickly, which is the whole point. The real benefit of such a policy is to show resolve and not *have* to strike.

I have no idea how long Spirit can withstand a strike. I'll bet their BOD does though, and they won't want it to go on for long, or at all.

 

[Flynfish]

It's actually quite brillant. It gives the strike even more leverage. When you leave market share open for the taking, you can kiss it goodbye.

 

[AKAAB]

I know at least one airline in FLL that is adding planes and will be looking for places to send them. For the sake of the pilots, let's hope management realizes the risk they are taking by not resolving this before the walkout begins.

 

[pilotyip]

The good ole days

Back in the old days before de-reg there was a pact called "Mutual Aid". This provided income to airlines that were shut down by employees on strike. If the employees at ABC Airlines went on strike and the load factor on XYZ Air went up, some of the revenue from the increased load factor at XYZ Air flowed back to ABC Airlines. This gave the shut down airline a source of revenue to allow them to let the employees stay out on strike a longer time. It gave a balance to both management and union to reach a reasonable contract. When mutual aid went away, it gave the unions a much stronger hand. The highly leveraged airline could not stay in business with a stop in cash flow for any extended period. This lead to shorter strikes, and contracts company would prefer not to enter. Elimination of this aid may have been good for the employee in the short term, but is has been detrimental to the airline industry in the long run.

 

[ualdriver]

Back in the old days before de-reg there was a pact called "Mutual Aid". This provided income to airlines that were shut down by employees on strike. If the employees at ABC Airlines went on strike and the load factor on XYZ Air went up, some of the revenue from the increased load factor at XYZ Air flowed back to ABC Airlines. This gave the shut down airline a source of revenue to allow them to let the employees stay out on strike a longer time. It gave a balance to both management and union to reach a reasonable contract. When mutual aid went away, it gave the unions a much stronger hand. The highly leveraged airline could not stay in business with a stop in cash flow for any extended period. This lead to shorter strikes, and contracts company would prefer not to enter. Elimination of this aid may have been good for the employee in the short term, but is has been detrimental to the airline industry in the long run.

He11, if that post doesn't show your management slant, I don't know what does. Killing mutual aid was an ALPA success. Mutual aid gave the shut down airline a source of revenue "to allow employees to stay out on strike a longer time.". As if that's a good thing? The RLA is so stacked in management's favor that the only recourse airline pilots have is the threat of a strike. How long has TSA been trying to get a contract, for example? Is that how the RLA should work? Mutual aid was yet ANOTHER tool in management's tool belt to screw over labor. Good thing it's gone.

 

[9rj9]

The owners will settle within days of a strike. Management only does what the big money tells them. No one has planes ready to pick up any significant slack in South Florida, ticket prices might go up on Spirit routes but thats about it.

 

[Skippy]

they wont strike- mgmnt will settle mast minute-- end thread

 

[8v8tr]

All great replies, but no one was able to answer the ALPA history question?

And what happens if MGMT does not settle last minute, or worse yet they lock out the pilots? I know nobody wants that to happen but Spirit is a privately held company and does not have to answer to any shareholders, they can do what they want. I would guess that they are going to have to learn the hard way.

Has ALPA ever gone on strike against a privately held company?

Makes you think.....

 

[Mike man]

Why give up a 107 Million dollar goose?

not have to answer to any shareholders

The investors in Indigo and Oak Tree would be share holders, albeit removed from direct investment--nevertheless share holders.

Also the public who uses Spirit to travel on would be share holders, not directly invested, but they have an interest if Spirit stays in business or closes shop.

Based on past profits, low cost and high load factors how could they possibly spin a press release stating they are closing the doors?

Will they really say the pilots want industry average pay, we can afford it, but just don't want to pay it so we are closing because of the pilots?

 

[pilotyip]

different view

He11, if that post doesn't show your management slant, I don't know what does. Killing mutual aid was an ALPA success. Mutual aid gave the shut down airline a source of revenue "to allow employees to stay out on strike a longer time.". As if that's a good thing? The RLA is so stacked in management's favor that the only recourse airline pilots have is the threat of a strike. How long has TSA been trying to get a contract, for example? Is that how the RLA should work? Mutual aid was yet ANOTHER tool in management's tool belt to screw over labor. Good thing it's gone.

Remember I am management, as if training is really management, by unemployment. I take a different view, having lived through that age. By allowing a company to survive jobs were saved high paying jobs at that. The union knew there would be limits to their demands. When mutual aid went away, a company was now forced to settle on terms it could not afford, because it knew it would close the doors after X weeks. This particularly true now days where very little is owned by an airline and everything is leased resulting in huge payments due almost daily. The result of this strike threat was to accept terms they could not live with and resulted in BK. The airlines hoped that somehow things would work out. As I said it is a different view, having worked at two privately held unions airline that are now out of business, I would be worried if I was a Spirit pilot in my mid 50’s. Thank you for your civil discord. BTW I have a lot of friends from JUS that work at Spirit, they do not have the best management team in the business. It could be a better place to work.

 

[enigma]

What are the chances if the pilots walk the company will survive?

Spirit's survival is entirely dependent upon Spirit's management and ownership. The pilot group is making reasonable wage and work rule requests but the company has driven the group towards a strike in times of economic success (for Spirit at least). The company must believe one of two things; either the pilots will cave in at the 11th hour or that Spirit can survive whatever strike the pilots can maintain. As others have said, any other outcome would result in shutting down a profitable venture and that just doesn't pass the smell test.

Why did the MEC specifically ask for other carriers to pick up there flying if they go out, and this flying would not be considered struck work? Is this not certain death to Spirit? Is this what the pilot group wants or just the MEC?

I think the vast majority of the pilot group has decided that Spirit management will eventually drive us into the ground and with that realization we have decided to fight them now instead of later. After the mis-treatment we've suffered the last three years at the companies hand, we just wont take it anymore. This release is our only chance to stand up for ourselves and we realize that a loss here will result in empowering Spirit's oppressive management to continue the flogging. It may be hard for outsiders to understand, but Spirit management has pushed too far and the result is a militant pilot group that is willing to take what seems to be a "mutually assured destruction" position.

How many times has ALPA been sucessful in a strike? How many times have they failed?

Flame away, but I think all valid questions and not meant as flame bait.

Don't know the answer, but I'm sure someone does. Personally I'd rather not add to the list of failed strikes, but sometimes you have to play the cards you were dealt and Spirit Airlines is too arrogant to trash the deal and do it again.

and No, I don't consider it flame bait. From the outside, it must look pretty silly for us to be striking in the current economy and job situation.

One thing people need to thoroughly understand is the depth of the BS that Spirit management has spread out these last few years. Unilaterally changing the contractual day off provision, promoting 709 rides against it's own pilots, carpet dances for stupid reasons like using the commuter clause (scheduler didn't understand the program so they NOI'd the pilot), and much much more. This is in addition to the fact that we work under a contract that is essentially a 1990 Midway Airlines contract with even less pay.

OBTW, If anyone sees this as an opportunity to get a "good" job, that is to scab. You must know that Spirit can't be trusted.

 

[27 driver]

Best of luck to all the Spirit boys and girls. Stay strong and UNIFIED and you will succeed.

 

[pilotyip]

nice job

Spirit's survival is entirely dependent upon Spirit's management and ownership. The pilot group is making reasonable wage and work rule requests but the company has driven the group towards ..........addition to the fact that we work under a contract that is essentially a 1990 Midway Airlines contract with even less pay.

OBTW, If anyone sees this as an opportunity to get a "good" job, that is to scab. You must know that Spirit can't be trusted.

Excellent post, I think you hit it right on the head. Hoping for the best for all.

 

[GogglesPisano]

One of my freinds went through Spirit's "709 thrill ride." One of the worst experience in his 20-yr furlough-filled career. He has nothing good to say about their training department.

BTW, how are those 22-yr-old interns doing in the Airbus and how do they feel about the strike?

 

[ualdriver]

From the outside, it must look pretty silly for us to be striking in the current economy and job situation.

Not to me it doesn't. The way you guys are being treated is inane. The only thing management teams like yours (and mine) understand is a strike.

 

[Anonymous2]

What are the chances if the pilots walk the company will survive?

Why did the MEC specifically ask for other carriers to pick up there flying if they go out, and this flying would not be considered struck work? Is this not certain death to Spirit? Is this what the pilot group wants or just the MEC?

How many times has ALPA been sucessful in a strike? How many times have they failed?

Flame away, but I think all valid questions and not meant as flame bait.

Maybe survival should be something that is considered before anyone WalKs.

 

[pilotyip]

Like EAL

Maybe survival should be something that is considered before anyone WalKs.

From reading enigma's post, it is almost that either they want to fix it or put it out of it's misery. They are fully aware of the consequences. Almost like the EAL guys when they walked in 1989. Like I said before if I was a Spirit pilot in my mid 50's I would be worried.

 

[8v8tr]

Well Said Enigma. I hope you guys are able to get what you want and MGMT knows this and does what is best for the company as a whole and not just there egos...(sp)

 

[enigma]

Well Said Enigma. I hope you guys are able to get what you want and MGMT knows this and does what is best for the company as a whole and not just there egos...(sp)

The real irony here is that the pilots would have settled for a small wage increase (compared to the industry) back in 2006 when negotiations began. The ALPA surveys showed a desire for pay, pay, and pay, but the expected increase was fairly small. All most of us wanted was to be able to continue the flying club we used to have and to get a little more cash.

But the company wasn't smart enough to do a deal when they had a happy pilot group and friendly union leadership. Now they must deal with a group that just want's to see the company feel the same pain that they've inflicted on the pilot group.