"Poz and Hold" versus "On the Hold"

[Data]

So is this a little rivalry between Air Force and Navy over at Delta?

 

[CTid]

Always thought the AF lingo was "On to Hold". On the other hand I say "on the deck" when calling in for gate verification. Too much Joint indoctrination I Guess.

 

[Data]

Always thought the AF lingo was "On to Hold". On the other hand I say "on the deck" when calling in for gate verification. Too much Joint indoctrination I Guess.

I'm not even getting the question right, I just assumed they were saying "on the hold"...

 

[Draginass]

On to Hold is slang and is a bad habit. Sounds too much like On to Go, or some other iteration. It makes good sense to speak clearly and slowly and acknowledge "Rwy xx, Taxi into Position and Hold, ," or if international "Line up and Wait, Rwy xx."

 

[ProFracPilot]

"Line up and wait" is soon to be standard here in the U.S. More assimilation to ICAO standards.

 

[tomgoodman]

So I retired

I'm not even getting the question right, I just assumed they were saying "on the hold"...

What you probably heard was me on one of my last flights....muttering "I'm too old."

 

[Dumb Pilot]

"Line up and wait" is soon to be standard here in the U.S. More assimilation to ICAO standards.

I'm sorry but in ICAO the instruction is only "Line up" they don't say "and wait" because it is evident you are going to wait since you haven't been cleared for T/O

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

I'm sorry but in ICAO the instruction is only "Line up" they don't say "and wait" because it is evident you are going to wait since you haven't been cleared for T/O

That's odd. I've been told to line up and wait in for the past five months in China, Japan, Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam . . .

 

[Dumb Pilot]

That's odd. I've been told to line up and wait in for the past five months in China, Japan, Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam . . .

Yeah, because you keep reading back "and wait" so they figure you need the clarification:laugh:

 

[ImbracableCrunk]

Next thing you'll try to tell me Jimi wasn't singing, "Scuse me while I kiss this guy."

 

[Jetjockey]

So "take it out and hold it" doesn't work anymore?

 

[skystud25]

Glad it's being changed. The word "hold" in both standard calls here stateside, "hold short" or "position and hold" has caused a lot of pilots to confuse one with the other and do the wrong thing. It's an important clearance, and they should be totally different in my opinion. How about "stay off the runway" and "taxi onto the runway and chill" as standard calls going forward?

 

[Quimby]

"Poz & Hold" & "on the hold" both sound ridiculous.

Just read the clearance back.

 

[d328pilot]

That's odd. I've been told to line up and wait in for the past five months in China, Japan, Korea, Cambodia, Vietnam . . .

ICAO document 4444 states that both "Line Up" and "Line Up and Wait" are acceptable.

 

[satpak77]

I'm sorry but in ICAO the instruction is only "Line up" they don't say "and wait" because it is evident you are going to wait since you haven't been cleared for T/O

http://www.nbaa.org/ops/intl/nam/caaic0908.pdf

 

[waveflyer]

Haha- maybe a riddle grad and an academy grad can just fight it out in a sanctioned aviation debate - the rest of us will get the job done and make sure we're clear-

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

I always just pull it out and hold it.

 

[Vastly Underemp]

So what is the LGA equal-opportunity controller going to say when she can no longer say "Pozit-sin an hode"?

 

[HalinTexas]

"Assume the position."

"Pull it out and hold it."

Seriously, read it back like he told you. If you "no comprende" ask for clarification.

 

[Patriot328]

"Line up and wait" is soon to be standard here in the U.S. More assimilation to ICAO standards.

I like "Line up (and wait)" better than position and hold, anyway. I just pray they don't start that "Behind arriving 737 on 3 mile final line up and wait Runway 22 behind" bullsh*t......

 

[ProFracPilot]

I like "Line up (and wait)" better than position and hold, anyway. I just pray they don't start that "Behind arriving 737 on 3 mile final line up and wait Runway 22 behind" bullsh*t......

I agree, I don't care for that clearance at all. But I guess they're able to facilitate X number of additional departures per hour by using it. The first time I heard it was while waiting for departure at LHR (I'm going back 12-15 years). I thought the controller was bloody joking.

 

[Patriot328]

I agree, I don't care for that clearance at all. But I guess they're able to facilitate X number of additional departures per hour by using it. The first time I heard it was while waiting for departure at LHR (I'm going back 12-15 years). I thought the controller was bloody joking.

Yeah I still don't know how it's faster than giving the line up clearance when the arriving traffic is crossing the threshold, though. Either way you will (or should) be ready to go by the time the landing traffic turns off the rwy.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

"Poz & Hold" & "on the hold" both sound ridiculous.

Just read the clearance back.

They do sound silly but there is a method to the madness. It is the Air Force equivalent of the bathroom stall toe tap. It is just a subtle way of letting the guy they are flying with that they are available on the overnight.