Six reasons airlines are set to crash

[pilotyip]

refreshing post

Ticket prices won´t go up until the demand goes up. Sad to say, there is still too much capacity in the system for ticket prices to go up. If the capacity does go down and ticket prices rise, then the airlines will lose more passengers as vacationing families elect to drive or ride a bus. This means less flying and less pilot jobs. The good news would be that the airlines would be sustainably profitable again.

A nice does of reality. It is the consumer of airline travel that will determine the profitability of an airline. This consumer if they are paying for their tickets will change airlines for a $1.00. Last week SWA dropped their prices again after raising them early in April. I am guessing that their advance bookings dropped off drastically. As stated above, it is neither management nor unions that can operate without considering the impact on the consumer who has instant access to the cheapest fare on every route.

 

[Flopgut]

Pilots and other employees would not have to worry about the specific economics of why/who is buying the tickets if we didn't have a broken relationship with the RLA. When deregulation came the RLA should have gone.

 

[Draginass]

That's a great argument. Until it is YOUR employer.

Nevertheless, it is TRUE. And at one time I worked for a carrier that DID go completely OUT OF BUSINESS. I was just smart enough to ditch the lousy company before the executives augered the company into a smoking hole. The writing was on the wall for YEARS at US Airways, but it's still staggers on as a zombie outfit helping dragging down the rest of the industry. UAL and DAL haven't helped either with their milktoast scope and compliant MECs.

 

[justin15e]

Why don't we unionize your employer, the military?

I don't know what you're trying to say here. Are you trying to be funny?

 

[FLYLOW22]

No, there is a solution.

Get legislation to charge a PILOT FEE just like a fee for 9/11, bags, sandwiches and crappers are charged right now.

Let them charge what they will and stop making the issue complicated.

CAPA?

 

[Ty Webb]

Quote o' da week!

That's a great argument. Until it is YOUR employer.

Heh-Heh! Flightinfo quote of the week. Nice job! imp:

 

[dashtrash]

Bump to get rid of ALK/USair thread.

 

[Kalifornia]

A nice does of reality. It is the consumer of airline travel that will determine the profitability of an airline. This consumer if they are paying for their tickets will change airlines for a $1.00. Last week SWA dropped their prices again after raising them early in April. I am guessing that their advance bookings dropped off drastically. As stated above, it is neither management nor unions that can operate without considering the impact on the consumer who has instant access to the cheapest fare on every route.

Silly that you argue basic economics for ticket prices, yet choose to help destroy this profession with economics. If less pilots are interested or qualified to fly professionally, then pilot pay and benefits go up is this simplistic theory. But some such as yourself are intent on letting every Johnny and Suzy believe that this is a nice little hobby job ignoring the economic realities of flight training costs, low end pay, and ignoring that this is far more than a job, or a career, it's a lifestyle and a huge responsibility that deserves good compensation.

 

[Metrojet]

One very prominent reason for the airlines problems is that insolvent bankrupt carriers like US Airways were allowed unfair competitive advantages given through bankruptcy, in some cases more than once. If those airlines were not given unfair advantages, pricing power would have been retained in the industry.

Lets see -

Use of US Bankruptcy Code -

United
Continental
Delta
Northwest
GM
Chrysler
Delphi Automotive

Did they all have unfair pricing advantage also - or do you just like singling out US AIRWAYS?

Metrojet

 

[hockeypilot44]

One very prominent reason for the airlines problems is that insolvent bankrupt carriers like US Airways were allowed unfair competitive advantages given through bankruptcy, in some cases more than once. If those airlines were not given unfair advantages, pricing power would have been retained in the industry.

Carriers like US Airways never would have went bankrupt if start-ups like Valujet, Jetblue, Skybus, Virgin America, etc. were not given ridiculous unfair advantages on landing fees, slots, labor, plane loans, etc. The playing field has never been level. The government has been in the process of bringing ticket prices down at all cost since deregulation. Unfortunately, the prices the government wants tickets to cost is lower than the cost to actually provide those tickets. To get to this goal, the government is encouraging and helping any and every potential start-up airline.

 

[pilotyip]

Brign reg back?

Carriers like US Airways never would have went bankrupt if start-ups like Valujet, Jetblue, Skybus, Virgin America, etc. were not given ridiculous unfair advantages on landing fees, slots, labor, plane loans, etc. The playing field has never been level. The government has been in the process of bringing ticket prices down at all cost since deregulation.

Yea, we should have never had those airlines; we should have stayed regulated. Life was good for a few pilots under regulation. However there are probably 4-5 times as many pilot’s jobs now as there was in 1977 and most of the pilots on this sight have benefited from de-reg. Back in reg time it was about 90% military that went to the majors. Dereg opened up a lot of airline job to non-military pilots. The bottom end ticket purchaser does not have to fly. To return to regulation would raise ticket prices, reduce the number of passengers, and therefore reduce the number of pilots needed. As in almost every example, a rise in ticket prices will be good for a few senior guys and bad for everyone else.

 

[pilotyip]

Brign reg back?

Carriers like US Airways never would have went bankrupt if start-ups like Valujet, Jetblue, Skybus, Virgin America, etc. were not given ridiculous unfair advantages on landing fees, slots, labor, plane loans, etc. The playing field has never been level. The government has been in the process of bringing ticket prices down at all cost since deregulation.

Yea, we should have never had those airlines; we should have stayed regulated. Life was good for a few pilots under regulation. However there are probably 4-5 times as many pilot’s jobs now as there was in 1977 and most of the pilots on this sight have benefited from de-reg. Back in reg time it was about 90% military that went to the majors. Dereg opened up a lot of airline job to non-military pilots. The bottom end ticket purchaser does not have to fly. To return to regulation would raise ticket prices, reduce the number of passengers, and therefore reduce the number of pilots needed. As in almost every example, a rise in ticket prices will be good for a few senior guys and bad for everyone else.

Silly that.......... that deserves good compensation.

I confess I am the puppet master who has destroyed the profession.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

Wasnt regulation kind of like big government? Those start up airlines with lower costs bring lower fares which helps local economies bring more people. They allow business travelers more economical travel ability as well as family vacations more afforable. I think it is a pro/con situation. Sams, BJs and all of the other discount stores are the same way. This whole country is based on consumerism. Quantity and not quality. It is not just the airline business but an entire cultural thought process. We are a disposable society. People do not even own cars anymore. They just keep leasing. So where is the line drawn? When and where are low prices ok? The only people that complain about low fares are the pilots who want more money. Unfortunately, we are the very small minority. Low far wars are not going to go away.

 

[waveflyer]

"In the history of airlines, very few CEOs have effectively run an airline. In fact, only one CEO in recent history, Herb Kelleher of Southwest Airlines (LUV), has been successful. Every other airline CEO in recent history has mismanaged during their short tenures, only to take large bonuses and golden parachutes on their way out. With idiots and thieves running the show, airlines are doomed to crash."

only quote in the article worth reading.
-------------------
as far as bankruptcy abuses and regulation- guess what, this is still the industry that if not outright regulated, is the most highly taxed and meddled with industry in the world. When it comes to financial health- 1 point is important- the powers that be know that cheap airline tickets stimulate the overall economy. We will always have a toughtime getting paid and should really concentrate on unifying and stop being our own worst enemies.

 

[pilotyip]

Who will pay for it.

the powers that be know that cheap airline tickets stimulate the overall economy. We will always have a toughtime getting paid and should really concentrate on unifying and stop being our own worst enemies.

Ok lets suppose you are successful in unifying, and you double pilot pay. Who will pay for it? The marginal consumer will reject air travel, these are the ones that buy the $99 seat MDW-SAN, the ones who fill the empty seats on Tues, Wed that allow profitibility. In the end it is the consumer who will determines how much can be charged for an airline seat. Higher prices will be good for senior guys, not so good for everyone else.